5 ms·

Perhaps we need to get rid of this artificial distinction between users and programmers.

ryukafalz 4y ago
Precisely. Every barrier in place between using a system and programming it serves to elevate the decisions of its designers over those of its users. The greatest power of computers is their ability to be reshaped to meet whatever need the user has, but we mostly lock that power away from them.
dgb23 4y ago
There's a subsection of people who are very well served by that. And it has already been happening. SQL, Python, HTML/CSS/JS are all things that people use who are not primarily programmers. Applications like Unity, Excel, some Adobe stuff also blur the line here. But let's not forget that there are a ton of people (many more than the above) who are constantly overwhelmed by computers even though they only use very few features. There's people who can't use ATMs and smartphones. Most computer users only ever use the most common applications (browsers, music/video players etc).
igouy 4y ago
Perhaps users want to use apps without needing to program apps? Perhaps some want to play in a garden without needing to dig and plant and weed and…
- t0suj4 4y ago
  I think you shouldn't need to program if you don't want to understand the problem domain.
  - igouy 4y ago
    Do you think someone should need to program if they want to understand the problem domain?
    - macintux 4y ago
      Speaking for myself, I’ve never found a better way to understand something new.
      - igouy 4y ago
        Perhaps a way to understand abstract categories.
- carapace 4y ago
  > Multics Emacs proved to be a great success—programming new editing commands was so convenient that even the secretaries in his office started learning how to use it. They used a manual someone had written which showed how to extend Emacs, but didn't say it was a programming. So the secretaries, who believed they couldn't do programming, weren't scared off. They read the manual, discovered they could do useful things and they learned to program. ~ https://www.gnu.org/gnu/rms-lisp.html https://www.gnu.org/gnu/rms-lisp.html
smegsicle 4y ago
think i've seen the term 'operator' used in this context?

Precisely. Every barrier in place between using a system and programming it serves to elevate the decisions of its designers over those of its users. The greatest power of computers is their ability to be reshaped to meet whatever need the user has, but we mostly lock that power away from them.

dgb23 4y ago

There's a subsection of people who are very well served by that. And it has already been happening. SQL, Python, HTML/CSS/JS are all things that people use who are not primarily programmers. Applications like Unity, Excel, some Adobe stuff also blur the line here. But let's not forget that there are a ton of people (many more than the above) who are constantly overwhelmed by computers even though they only use very few features. There's people who can't use ATMs and smartphones. Most computer users only ever use the most common applications (browsers, music/video players etc).

igouy 4y ago

Perhaps users want to use apps without needing to program apps? Perhaps some want to play in a garden without needing to dig and plant and weed and…

t0suj4 4y ago
I think you shouldn't need to program if you don't want to understand the problem domain.
- igouy 4y ago
  Do you think someone should need to program if they want to understand the problem domain?
  - macintux 4y ago
    Speaking for myself, I’ve never found a better way to understand something new.
    - igouy 4y ago
      Perhaps a way to understand abstract categories.
carapace 4y ago
> Multics Emacs proved to be a great success—programming new editing commands was so convenient that even the secretaries in his office started learning how to use it. They used a manual someone had written which showed how to extend Emacs, but didn't say it was a programming. So the secretaries, who believed they couldn't do programming, weren't scared off. They read the manual, discovered they could do useful things and they learned to program. ~ https://www.gnu.org/gnu/rms-lisp.html https://www.gnu.org/gnu/rms-lisp.html

smegsicle 4y ago

think i've seen the term 'operator' used in this context?