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This is extremely out of the ordinary- Levels.fyi lists a salary of $224,000 for a Staff level SWE at Google

by neill 4y ago

htormey 4y ago
No you are incorrect. That 224k is base at google not including equity. Staff engineers at google get a bonus and the majority of their comp is in equity, just like coin. Source, I have a lot of friends who are former/current staff engineers at a variety of Bay Area companies. I also was a staff engineer at coin. Also if you want to earn something like this in cash go work at Netflix when they start hiring again. They give you the option to be paid in cash.
- neill 4y ago
  It's not incorrect, salary does not include equity. Total comp would be a combination of salary, equity, and bonuses. The OP refers to salary, not total comp. I'm using their information to reply in their thread. Happy to re-asses conversation at total comp (a different conversation) if they are referring to total comp instead of salary.
  - htormey 4y ago
    The OP is confused, I work at coinbase and that figure refers to total comp. Also levels.fyi is listing salary and not total comp for the google position he is comparing.
  - thebean11 4y ago
    Coinbase isn't paying $380k base either..are you just quibbling over the meaning of salary?
    - UncleMeat 4y ago
      I don't think it is quibbling. It is a really important distinction. Salary is (mostly) guaranteed. Equity isn't guaranteed at all.
      - worik 4y ago
        > Salary is (mostly) guaranteed Truth The salary I banked at the beginning of the month is guaranteed.
      - htormey 4y ago
        It’s a bit pedantic to be honest. Multiple times it’s been pointed out on this thread that the OP was referring to total comp so I’m not sure why this keeps being brought up. While equity in a public company can go down and go down significantly it’s liquid. Especially in companies like coinbase that don’t have a 1 year cliff, are public, it’s a significant part of your comp and not funny money like you get in many early stage companies.
      - ac29 4y ago
        >Equity isn't guaranteed at all. Especially not at coinbase, whose stock has imploded to the tune of -75% just this year, and more since IPO.
      - thebean11 4y ago
        To quibble even more, it's much harder (legally) to take away unvested RSUs than it is to demote / reduce salary.
ojbyrne 4y ago
I’m guessing 380k is total comp, which is 498k for staff at Google.
dasil003 4y ago
The coin base is almost certainly total comp, especially since they give annual (rather than the standard 4-year) equity grants.
- fnbr 4y ago
  Yeah, no way that Coinbase is paying $380k salary.
georgeecollins 4y ago
I wonder if this is sort of imposter syndrome, where an engineer thinks a year of my time is just not worth $380k to $495k. We all know plenty of examples where good employees are worth this and much more to growing or very profitable companies. Ask for what you can get and realize that you are worth more than you realize in the right situation. And never begrudge a peer who earns a lot.
- mlom 4y ago
filoleg 4y ago
Levels.fyi lists that number as base cash salary, yes. Total comp for a Staff SWE at Google is easily breaking $500k. It is also not a secret to anyone that cash salary at most tech companies tops out pretty low, because as you grow in levels, cash becomes a smaller and smaller portion of your total comp. $224k/yr is below what a midlevel/L4 SWE would make at Google in total comp.
arcticbull 4y ago
levels.fyi shows $498,910 in total compensation for a staff level SWE at Google. Different companies compensate using a different blend of cash and equity. At a public company like Google, it's all liquid. Similarly, an E6 at Facebook gets $576,886. These are also roughly speaking first-year salaries. You can expect a refresh grant equal to 1/4 of a new-hire equity grant each year vesting over 4 years, plus a staff-level can get a signing bonus of $50-100K. After 3-4 years in a staff role you can easily be making $1-2M/yr. It's probably not 380K base, which is very high, it's likely 300K base + 25% bonus target = $375K, give or take. That's not hugely more than any of the mega-caps have been paying in cash comp for staffie's for like 5+ years.
- UncleMeat 4y ago
  > After 3-4 years in a staff role you can easily be making $1-2M/yr. Refreshes exist but this is a total lie. I'm staff at Google. Nobody at L6 is making $1M in annual compensation, even if they have their sign-on equity and three refreshes. Let alone $2M.
  - arcticbull 4y ago
    Ok so I'm speaking from personal experience and network. The point is that 3-4 years tenure is enough for significant appreciation in equity, especially in the earlier grants. Let's work an example, for someone who started 3 years ago. - May 2019. - Base: $225K. Equity: $880K grant = 785sh @ 1120/share = 220K. Bonus: $60K. Total: $500K. - May 2020. - Base: $236K. Equity: 196sh @ 1428/share = 280K. Equity: $220K grant = 154sh @ 1428/share = 55K. Bonus: $63K. Total: $634K. - May 2021. - Base: $247K. Equity: 196sh @ 2411/share = 473K. Equity: 39sh @ 2411/share = 94K. Equity: $220K grant = 91sh @ 2411/share = 55K. Bonus: $66K. Total: $935K. Trust me, if they've been there for 3-4 years, they're making more than 1M in total comp. If you back my example out to someone who started in 2018, those refreshers easily push them into 1.2-1.4M, and factor in promo grants?
    - fshbbdssbbgdd 4y ago
      The original grant runs out after 4 years. You don’t just infinitely accumulate a higher annual comp through refreshers.
more_corn 4y ago
That’s low. I don’t think they’re using “staff” right. Also, Total comp in 224k is more like $400k. 15% bonus target is normal with a possible 2x performance multiplier. 100k/yr gsu stock. 50% 401k match. To say nothing of the perks. On-site gyms, fantastic food, free shuttles. Not that I’m advocating for working for goog, just saying.

This is extremely out of the ordinary- Levels.fyi lists a salary of $224,000 for a Staff level SWE at Google

by neill 4y ago

This is extremely out of the ordinary- Levels.fyi lists a salary of $224,000 for a Staff level SWE at Google

No you are incorrect. That 224k is base at google not including equity. Staff engineers at google get a bonus and the majority of their comp is in equity, just like coin. Source, I have a lot of friends who are former/current staff engineers at a variety of Bay Area companies. I also was a staff engineer at coin. Also if you want to earn something like this in cash go work at Netflix when they start hiring again. They give you the option to be paid in cash.

neill 4y ago
It's not incorrect, salary does not include equity. Total comp would be a combination of salary, equity, and bonuses. The OP refers to salary, not total comp. I'm using their information to reply in their thread. Happy to re-asses conversation at total comp (a different conversation) if they are referring to total comp instead of salary.
- htormey 4y ago
  The OP is confused, I work at coinbase and that figure refers to total comp. Also levels.fyi is listing salary and not total comp for the google position he is comparing.
- thebean11 4y ago
  Coinbase isn't paying $380k base either..are you just quibbling over the meaning of salary?
  - UncleMeat 4y ago
    I don't think it is quibbling. It is a really important distinction. Salary is (mostly) guaranteed. Equity isn't guaranteed at all.
    - worik 4y ago
      > Salary is (mostly) guaranteed Truth The salary I banked at the beginning of the month is guaranteed.
    - htormey 4y ago
      It’s a bit pedantic to be honest. Multiple times it’s been pointed out on this thread that the OP was referring to total comp so I’m not sure why this keeps being brought up. While equity in a public company can go down and go down significantly it’s liquid. Especially in companies like coinbase that don’t have a 1 year cliff, are public, it’s a significant part of your comp and not funny money like you get in many early stage companies.
    - ac29 4y ago
      >Equity isn't guaranteed at all. Especially not at coinbase, whose stock has imploded to the tune of -75% just this year, and more since IPO.
    - thebean11 4y ago
      To quibble even more, it's much harder (legally) to take away unvested RSUs than it is to demote / reduce salary.

ojbyrne 4y ago

I’m guessing 380k is total comp, which is 498k for staff at Google.

dasil003 4y ago

The coin base is almost certainly total comp, especially since they give annual (rather than the standard 4-year) equity grants.

fnbr 4y ago
Yeah, no way that Coinbase is paying $380k salary.

georgeecollins 4y ago

I wonder if this is sort of imposter syndrome, where an engineer thinks a year of my time is just not worth $380k to $495k. We all know plenty of examples where good employees are worth this and much more to growing or very profitable companies. Ask for what you can get and realize that you are worth more than you realize in the right situation. And never begrudge a peer who earns a lot.

mlom 4y ago

filoleg 4y ago

Levels.fyi lists that number as base cash salary, yes. Total comp for a Staff SWE at Google is easily breaking $500k. It is also not a secret to anyone that cash salary at most tech companies tops out pretty low, because as you grow in levels, cash becomes a smaller and smaller portion of your total comp. $224k/yr is below what a midlevel/L4 SWE would make at Google in total comp.

arcticbull 4y ago

levels.fyi shows $498,910 in total compensation for a staff level SWE at Google. Different companies compensate using a different blend of cash and equity. At a public company like Google, it's all liquid. Similarly, an E6 at Facebook gets $576,886. These are also roughly speaking first-year salaries. You can expect a refresh grant equal to 1/4 of a new-hire equity grant each year vesting over 4 years, plus a staff-level can get a signing bonus of $50-100K. After 3-4 years in a staff role you can easily be making $1-2M/yr. It's probably not 380K base, which is very high, it's likely 300K base + 25% bonus target = $375K, give or take. That's not hugely more than any of the mega-caps have been paying in cash comp for staffie's for like 5+ years.

UncleMeat 4y ago
> After 3-4 years in a staff role you can easily be making $1-2M/yr. Refreshes exist but this is a total lie. I'm staff at Google. Nobody at L6 is making $1M in annual compensation, even if they have their sign-on equity and three refreshes. Let alone $2M.
- arcticbull 4y ago
  Ok so I'm speaking from personal experience and network. The point is that 3-4 years tenure is enough for significant appreciation in equity, especially in the earlier grants. Let's work an example, for someone who started 3 years ago. - May 2019. - Base: $225K. Equity: $880K grant = 785sh @ 1120/share = 220K. Bonus: $60K. Total: $500K. - May 2020. - Base: $236K. Equity: 196sh @ 1428/share = 280K. Equity: $220K grant = 154sh @ 1428/share = 55K. Bonus: $63K. Total: $634K. - May 2021. - Base: $247K. Equity: 196sh @ 2411/share = 473K. Equity: 39sh @ 2411/share = 94K. Equity: $220K grant = 91sh @ 2411/share = 55K. Bonus: $66K. Total: $935K. Trust me, if they've been there for 3-4 years, they're making more than 1M in total comp. If you back my example out to someone who started in 2018, those refreshers easily push them into 1.2-1.4M, and factor in promo grants?
  - fshbbdssbbgdd 4y ago
    The original grant runs out after 4 years. You don’t just infinitely accumulate a higher annual comp through refreshers.

more_corn 4y ago

That’s low. I don’t think they’re using “staff” right. Also, Total comp in 224k is more like $400k. 15% bonus target is normal with a possible 2x performance multiplier. 100k/yr gsu stock. 50% 401k match. To say nothing of the perks. On-site gyms, fantastic food, free shuttles. Not that I’m advocating for working for goog, just saying.