16 ms·

60 days as I understood - first 30 days just water and then the next 30 days water with electrolytes

by wwarek 4y ago

SemanticStrengh 4y ago
This guy should be dead, his body should have digested himself. How can someone not eat anything by his own will for more than a few days ? (5-7 max) you should pass out. Also in the case that were true, let me be clear: No food intake for multiple days is extremely dangerous for your health, it will upregulate autophagy, apoptosis and will break your mitochondria bioenegetics which will explode your oxidative stress (and therefore DNA breaks) and will induce partial ischemia/hypoxia/hypoglycemia which leads to an accelerated ageing process. Autophagy is nice, in little dose, and is best emulated pharmacologically (e.g. via some polyphenols)
- amelius 4y ago
  I guess he ate some bugs in his sleep.
- TimSchumann 4y ago
  Not sure why I’d pass out from just not eating, I had plenty of body fat on me for the entirety of the fast. I wasn’t starving myself. Estimating by weight loss my metabolism was still burning well over 2500kcal daily at the end of the fast.
  - HanMei_333 4y ago
    Agreed. Pretty much my numbers as well - around 300 gr weight loss a day. An example: A person with 14 % body fat and 74 kg body weight has around 10 kg fat. That is more than enough to go for about 30 days without any calorie intake.
    - TimSchumann 4y ago
      Yeah, my weight loss was around 1.3 lbs or 600 grams daily. I'm a large human though.
- lm28469 4y ago
  That's not how it works at all. Not drinking water will damage/kill you real fast, not eating food on the other hand is pretty safe for most people. The longest fast was ~380 days [0] If you have some fat (75% of westerners are heavily overweight or obese) you can easily fast on water only for weeks, of course you're not going to be able to exercise heavily every day or run a marathon. But if you're an overweight office worker with no other health issues you'll be just fine. For anything over a week you probably should get medical assistance to keep an eye on vitamins and electrolytes, but you're not going to drop dead/unconscious/destroy your DNA What's dangerous is starvation, aka fasting until your body starts giving up, but for the average westerner that's going to take a long time. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angus_Barbieri%27s_fast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angus_Barbieri%27s_fast
  - SemanticStrengh 4y ago
    1) there are tons of substances the body can't make out of nothing/lipids. 2) there are tons of substances the body can't make efficiently with no food, which leads to metabolism/health deficits. and no it's not just vitamins and electrolytes LOL it's much more complex and diverse than that. 3) even if we assume in an ideal world, that the person who fast is able to supplement ALL the useful things and yet not take any external calories/glucose. This person would still reach a huge bioenergetic deficit/stress. Yes he will survive as you say, and might even be asymptomatic but nonetheless I would be very surprised if the biomarkers where doing Okay. Default bloodworks analysises are shit but if you command a proper analysis of your antioxidants ratio and of your bioenergetics biomarkers and apoptotic biomarkers you will see (unless I'm wrong which is very unlikely given my expertise) that the body is having a significantly accelerated aging/damage scheme. Which might not show symptoms before multiple decades later and even might not show symptoms at all in his life but statistically, there is a risk. Now he can mitigate some of those, by taking e.g. ALCAR + NAC daily for a year. BTW the guy you linked died at 50 years old, which is not a performance.
    - lm28469 4y ago
      You went from "This guy should be dead" after 30 days of fasting to "this one guy died 25 years after a one year fast". All I'm saying is that you were wrong. The human body can take much more than you explained in your first comment. You won't die nor fall unconscious and "5-7 days max" isn't anywhere close to the limit
- Terry_Roll 4y ago
  18days here and would carried on but had to break it for other reasons. Glutathione possibly needs to be included as this will get low and Choline or Carnitine to remove the brain fog that occurred. Averaged 18kg weight loss over the 18days, never felt so good in my life, like being a teenage male ramped up on Testosterone again, amazingly easy to fall asleep, excellent quality of sleep, vivid dreams which are recalled in the morning, not nightmares or anything like that. Foods which I dont like because of historical reasons smelt appealing and I wanted to eat them, no cravings for anything. The only water I could really wanted, was the Scottish Highlands water, just didnt like Evian, S. Pellegrino, and the supermarket brands, and I wonder if highly filtered water ie dead water with no contaminants so its almost pure H2O would have been what I wanted, but they dont sell that in supermarkets AFAIK. Ramadan is one of the fasts where you dont consume fluids during the day, and not consuming fluids will ramp up parts of your immune system which is why its important to drink fluid in order to not get angry. This could be in part because histamine is used by immune cells to move through tissues, but a personality side effect of high amounts is increased aggression. Anyone who supplements with histidine a precursor for histamine may also notice increased aggression. ie explosive rage, so be careful.
  - chronogram 4y ago
    Most supermarkets do sell demiwater (distilled/deionised), which is great for chemistry or cleaning of electrical components, as well as having a standard base (with mineral packets) for brewing coffee or beer. I would definitely not drink it, especially not without heavy supplementation of minerals, else you lose more minerals from your water circulation than the 0 that you gain.
    - Terry_Roll 4y ago
      Sometimes its the chemicals in the water that cause the problem. During my fast, my sense of smell became super good but the smell of chlorine in the tap water was disgusting, I couldnt drink the stuff.
  - SemanticStrengh 4y ago
    This is a very complex topic and Glutathione or NAC has a half life of only ~5 hours. Had I to do it I would take ALCAR 2000MG but still you are playing with a lot of unknowns phamarcologically speaking. As i said a lab test of bioenergetics level, oxidative stress and apotosis are needed to bring confidence.
- adrianN 4y ago
  It depends on how much fat you have. The body is relatively good at living on stored fat for a while. You need to supplement things that aren't stored, like vitamins and electrolytes and you'd better do it under medical supervision. If you fast long enough you also need some amino acids.
  - SemanticStrengh 4y ago
    You have zero idea of the propensity of hidden damages
    - beagle3 4y ago
      Surely there’s documentation you can point us to, since quite a few people have been fasting for a month at a time for ages? But I’m only looking for documented examples, not extrapolated theory (which is what your first response seems to be), as — already in this thread - we have examples of 60 and 380 day cases with no observable I’ll effects (and I’ll add my own, multiple 15-25 days over the years, starting about 25 years ago — with doctor verified no I’ll effects a month later in most of them)
    - adrianN 4y ago
      I'm not saying that it's healthy. I'm just saying that many people have successfully fasted for surprisingly long intervals without dropping dead.
- rhinoceraptor 4y ago
  I've done a few 7 day fasts, two 14 day fasts, and one 28 day fast. Every time it gets a lot easier. I'll be a bit hungry on days one and two, but by day three I only really think about food if I smell something good. As long as I keep up on water and electrolytes, I feel great.
- DyslexicAtheist 4y ago
  It sounds like you never tried? I watched my dad do 30-60 days every few years growing up. He always said how clear it made him mentally and the benefits to his health also was visible (until today he mountain-bikes across South East Asia during winter and he is in his late 70ies). Longest I did was 40 days. Started out with 10 days a few years earlier which broke my misconceptions about if I would be able to do it. Especially the 40 days has been a healing journey for me both physically and mentally. It also gave me massive confidence about my body and taught me more about my limits than what decades of running did. I wouldn't do this long again because I lack the reserves today. But 10-20 days every few years is no issue.
  - TimSchumann 4y ago
    I'm really surprised at the number of people in this comemnt thread who think going a week without food will kill you. I don't even think it will harm any healthy adult in any way, much less kill them.
TimSchumann 4y ago
Correct. Which, for the record, I would never repeat and wasn't what I now consider safe. Electrolyte supplementation on an extended fast is important, and I drank way _way_ too much water in the early weeks of that fast, which is also dangerous.

60 days as I understood - first 30 days just water and then the next 30 days water with electrolytes

by wwarek 4y ago

60 days as I understood - first 30 days just water and then the next 30 days water with electrolytes

This guy should be dead, his body should have digested himself. How can someone not eat anything by his own will for more than a few days ? (5-7 max) you should pass out. Also in the case that were true, let me be clear: No food intake for multiple days is extremely dangerous for your health, it will upregulate autophagy, apoptosis and will break your mitochondria bioenegetics which will explode your oxidative stress (and therefore DNA breaks) and will induce partial ischemia/hypoxia/hypoglycemia which leads to an accelerated ageing process. Autophagy is nice, in little dose, and is best emulated pharmacologically (e.g. via some polyphenols)

amelius 4y ago
I guess he ate some bugs in his sleep.
TimSchumann 4y ago
Not sure why I’d pass out from just not eating, I had plenty of body fat on me for the entirety of the fast. I wasn’t starving myself. Estimating by weight loss my metabolism was still burning well over 2500kcal daily at the end of the fast.
- HanMei_333 4y ago
  Agreed. Pretty much my numbers as well - around 300 gr weight loss a day. An example: A person with 14 % body fat and 74 kg body weight has around 10 kg fat. That is more than enough to go for about 30 days without any calorie intake.
  - TimSchumann 4y ago
    Yeah, my weight loss was around 1.3 lbs or 600 grams daily. I'm a large human though.
lm28469 4y ago
That's not how it works at all. Not drinking water will damage/kill you real fast, not eating food on the other hand is pretty safe for most people. The longest fast was ~380 days [0] If you have some fat (75% of westerners are heavily overweight or obese) you can easily fast on water only for weeks, of course you're not going to be able to exercise heavily every day or run a marathon. But if you're an overweight office worker with no other health issues you'll be just fine. For anything over a week you probably should get medical assistance to keep an eye on vitamins and electrolytes, but you're not going to drop dead/unconscious/destroy your DNA What's dangerous is starvation, aka fasting until your body starts giving up, but for the average westerner that's going to take a long time. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angus_Barbieri%27s_fast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angus_Barbieri%27s_fast
- SemanticStrengh 4y ago
  1) there are tons of substances the body can't make out of nothing/lipids. 2) there are tons of substances the body can't make efficiently with no food, which leads to metabolism/health deficits. and no it's not just vitamins and electrolytes LOL it's much more complex and diverse than that. 3) even if we assume in an ideal world, that the person who fast is able to supplement ALL the useful things and yet not take any external calories/glucose. This person would still reach a huge bioenergetic deficit/stress. Yes he will survive as you say, and might even be asymptomatic but nonetheless I would be very surprised if the biomarkers where doing Okay. Default bloodworks analysises are shit but if you command a proper analysis of your antioxidants ratio and of your bioenergetics biomarkers and apoptotic biomarkers you will see (unless I'm wrong which is very unlikely given my expertise) that the body is having a significantly accelerated aging/damage scheme. Which might not show symptoms before multiple decades later and even might not show symptoms at all in his life but statistically, there is a risk. Now he can mitigate some of those, by taking e.g. ALCAR + NAC daily for a year. BTW the guy you linked died at 50 years old, which is not a performance.
  - lm28469 4y ago
    You went from "This guy should be dead" after 30 days of fasting to "this one guy died 25 years after a one year fast". All I'm saying is that you were wrong. The human body can take much more than you explained in your first comment. You won't die nor fall unconscious and "5-7 days max" isn't anywhere close to the limit
Terry_Roll 4y ago
18days here and would carried on but had to break it for other reasons. Glutathione possibly needs to be included as this will get low and Choline or Carnitine to remove the brain fog that occurred. Averaged 18kg weight loss over the 18days, never felt so good in my life, like being a teenage male ramped up on Testosterone again, amazingly easy to fall asleep, excellent quality of sleep, vivid dreams which are recalled in the morning, not nightmares or anything like that. Foods which I dont like because of historical reasons smelt appealing and I wanted to eat them, no cravings for anything. The only water I could really wanted, was the Scottish Highlands water, just didnt like Evian, S. Pellegrino, and the supermarket brands, and I wonder if highly filtered water ie dead water with no contaminants so its almost pure H2O would have been what I wanted, but they dont sell that in supermarkets AFAIK. Ramadan is one of the fasts where you dont consume fluids during the day, and not consuming fluids will ramp up parts of your immune system which is why its important to drink fluid in order to not get angry. This could be in part because histamine is used by immune cells to move through tissues, but a personality side effect of high amounts is increased aggression. Anyone who supplements with histidine a precursor for histamine may also notice increased aggression. ie explosive rage, so be careful.
- chronogram 4y ago
  Most supermarkets do sell demiwater (distilled/deionised), which is great for chemistry or cleaning of electrical components, as well as having a standard base (with mineral packets) for brewing coffee or beer. I would definitely not drink it, especially not without heavy supplementation of minerals, else you lose more minerals from your water circulation than the 0 that you gain.
  - Terry_Roll 4y ago
    Sometimes its the chemicals in the water that cause the problem. During my fast, my sense of smell became super good but the smell of chlorine in the tap water was disgusting, I couldnt drink the stuff.
- SemanticStrengh 4y ago
  This is a very complex topic and Glutathione or NAC has a half life of only ~5 hours. Had I to do it I would take ALCAR 2000MG but still you are playing with a lot of unknowns phamarcologically speaking. As i said a lab test of bioenergetics level, oxidative stress and apotosis are needed to bring confidence.
adrianN 4y ago
It depends on how much fat you have. The body is relatively good at living on stored fat for a while. You need to supplement things that aren't stored, like vitamins and electrolytes and you'd better do it under medical supervision. If you fast long enough you also need some amino acids.
- SemanticStrengh 4y ago
  You have zero idea of the propensity of hidden damages
  - beagle3 4y ago
    Surely there’s documentation you can point us to, since quite a few people have been fasting for a month at a time for ages? But I’m only looking for documented examples, not extrapolated theory (which is what your first response seems to be), as — already in this thread - we have examples of 60 and 380 day cases with no observable I’ll effects (and I’ll add my own, multiple 15-25 days over the years, starting about 25 years ago — with doctor verified no I’ll effects a month later in most of them)
  - adrianN 4y ago
    I'm not saying that it's healthy. I'm just saying that many people have successfully fasted for surprisingly long intervals without dropping dead.
rhinoceraptor 4y ago
I've done a few 7 day fasts, two 14 day fasts, and one 28 day fast. Every time it gets a lot easier. I'll be a bit hungry on days one and two, but by day three I only really think about food if I smell something good. As long as I keep up on water and electrolytes, I feel great.
DyslexicAtheist 4y ago
It sounds like you never tried? I watched my dad do 30-60 days every few years growing up. He always said how clear it made him mentally and the benefits to his health also was visible (until today he mountain-bikes across South East Asia during winter and he is in his late 70ies). Longest I did was 40 days. Started out with 10 days a few years earlier which broke my misconceptions about if I would be able to do it. Especially the 40 days has been a healing journey for me both physically and mentally. It also gave me massive confidence about my body and taught me more about my limits than what decades of running did. I wouldn't do this long again because I lack the reserves today. But 10-20 days every few years is no issue.
- TimSchumann 4y ago
  I'm really surprised at the number of people in this comemnt thread who think going a week without food will kill you. I don't even think it will harm any healthy adult in any way, much less kill them.

TimSchumann 4y ago

Correct. Which, for the record, I would never repeat and wasn't what I now consider safe. Electrolyte supplementation on an extended fast is important, and I drank way _way_ too much water in the early weeks of that fast, which is also dangerous.