7 ms·
Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator
- samatman 4y agoWell if nominative determinism has any weight, they have a great name for it. It could be better, I suppose; if there are any large holding companies out there named Nande or Norr they might have stiff competition.
- lnxg33k1 4y agoAs Italian, when I read something involving Agnellis willing to do something for Italy, I am a bit scared about taxpayers money, like Fiat has always got tax discounts and subsidies and as a thank you has closed factories, and fired people, can we just keep the people related to Agnellis in the Silicon Valley?
- gw67 4y agoIt's just a stereotype, come on!
- lnxg33k1 4y agohttps://www.google.com/search?q=fiat+lays+off https://www.google.com/search?q=fiat+lays+off https://www.google.com/search?q=fiat+subsidies https://www.google.com/search?q=fiat+subsidies I don't think so, if I am honest when I was young the few things I remember hearing continuosly from news was fiat laying off and fiat getting money
- gw67 4y agoYeah, but isn't related to this initiative. You are referring to something happened in the past for another company. It doesn't make sense.
- lnxg33k1 4y agoIn Naples we say you can put all the rum you want a turd can’t become a baba (pastry).. so they can rename it but its always the same dna I guess? We will see ^^
- santiagobasulto 4y agoOff topic! I just moved to Italy, living in Torino now. How's the startup ecosystem in Italy? I've seen some interesting Blockchain-related groups at the Politecnico, but not much after that.
- mat_jack1 4y agocheck this coworking space: https://toolboxcoworking.com/ https://toolboxcoworking.com/ there are several tech meetups of nice people and it's also hosting the local fablab: https://fablabtorino.org/ https://fablabtorino.org/ after covid there are less meetups, but I'm sure it's going to pick up again
- mattrighetti 4y agoYou could checkout the polihub incubator/accelerator in Milan, most of the startup they fund are hardware/mechanics related.
- lnxg33k1 4y agoI live in the Netherlands :D but am from Naples originally so I know little about Turin :'( sovvy
- brthsim 4y ago
- kwere 4y agothere is something around universities and in Milano,Rome. Its really small scale, low pay, very high risk. I believe engineering/product based startup are more fit for the italian market and offer more exit options, mostly M&A. In Turin there is I3P [www.i3p.it], a serious incubator managed by the Torino Politechnich
- albybisy 4y agothis is what i think as well. When there is Agnelli family involved is just for have something from the state in some way or another. But we'll see. I hope to be wrong.
- baybal2 4y ago
- riffraff 4y agoFIAT is not EXOR, a ton of EXOR initiatives came and went (remember Ciaoweb?) without government intervention. The issue with car manufacturing is that it employees a fuckton of people, so it becomes political. Also, if there is a person who can run this thing well is mr. Piacentini, so I would not be too negative.
- 0xfaded 4y agoIf I did another startup in Europe, I would incorporate in Delaware and raise US money from the get go. It's cool to see the YC terms borrowed directly, and hopefully that would be a shot across the bows of European investors. But to really give European founders leverage they need access to US valuations and terms. I think semi-philanthropic incubators like these could really help by guiding founders to form US entities or reincorporate as early as possible.
- antupis 4y agoyeah and then go after European engineering talent, try to get best of both worlds.
- andy_ppp 4y agoYes same, even if I don’t get into YC I’ll be trying to raise on US terms. I’ve seen some really stupid startups in Europe end up with crazy dilution to the point where if they thought about it they’d realise they just had a job working for some rich people. US valuations are twice the amount for half the equity from what I’ve seen so why I wouldn’t do that rather than be screwed over I don’t know…
- 0xfaded 4y agoMake sure you incorporate in a form that US investors are comfortable with. Few investors are going to want to figure out what an ApS or GmH is just to make a seed investment in your tiny startup. It also gives tou better exit potential in the event of a M&A.
- andy_ppp 4y agoI’ll probably do whatever Clerky tells me to, which is the service YC tells founders to use I believe…
- inductive_magic 4y agoFrom someone who hasn't interacted with the startup world much yet: what are some problems companies in Europe would have to deal with? What liberties are exclusive to the US? I'd imagine lots of complications of running a US-based company within Europe. I can't imagine moving to the US, and I'm sure that lots of smart people in the EU are in the same camp. At the same time, I'd be very interested in providing high value to and being part of a company with the velocity and dynamics of a start-up -- I just wouldn't move to the US to pursue the opportunity, as in: I'd not even consider it below ridiculous/unrealistic pay.
- darkwater 4y agoGood luck with that, Italy and Italians are one of the most bureaucracy-obsessed country on the planet. You can think you own country has bureaucracy issues? Go check Italy, and it will be for sure worse. I mean, in 2022 AFAIK and still not every salaried person can have a default pre-compiled tax draft that they can just sign on the Internet and get approved. You have to go and compile it one from scratch (I think the situation is changing but still not everybody has this by default). Also there is this idea where you get by default a lot of taxes but that you can opt-in to many helps for various topics (like, improving your house energy efficiency) which will reduce your tax burden, over usually 5 or 10 years after you paid for it cash. There are small taxes and fees for everything, you had to pay an annual tax to validate your passport (which was obviously checked only when you left Italy, if you live abroad nobody even knows about it, so now they made it a big fee at passport renewal every 10years) and so on. Source: an Italian living abroad, tired of bureaucracy .
- bonzini 4y ago> still not every salaried person can have a default pre-compiled tax draft that they can just sign on the Internet and get approved. You have to go and compile it one from scratch This has changed several years ago. > you had to pay an annual tax to validate your passport Keyword being had. It's gone for like 10 years.
- darkwater 4y ago> This has changed several years ago. AFAIK not yet for everybody > Keyword being had. It's gone for like 10 years. I think it's less, but in my last renewal in 2017 I had to pay over 100€ all at once which is ridiculous (but at least less ridiculous than having to put a 10€ physical "marca da bollo" each and every year).
- bonzini 4y ago> AFAIK not yet for everybody For all employees (lavoratori dipendenti) and retired people.
- 4y ago
- wlecometo 4y agoWell the main issue in italy is not lack of funding or lack of talent but rather the amount of taxation companies had to go through and the uncertainty behind a big and complex legal system which makes an average of 8 years for civil processing . these two things alone and the fact there are better places in europe to make a startup (hint: netherlands, germany, france, czech republic, romania, poland) makes me wonder if they will succeed or is this a way to collect IP rather than helping idea to grow? maybe they saw that this is exactly what most of incubators are doing, in the end lots of startups in Italy were made by university professors making startups out of a research paper from one of their student, so i can see why an incubator could be interested in this. yes i know, sorry for the negativity i've been there and i experienced this first hand.
- blaser-waffle 4y agoDon't forget the culture of corruption, esp. in the south of the country.
- brthsim 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- epolanski 4y agoYes, doing business in Italy is hard, but when your company is doing poorly financially or is having issues it's the government that is going to pay your worker's salaries. Do places with low taxes have this? And the education of your worker's is paid by the government, so you don't get employees that are desperate to pay their student loans. And so is healthcare, so you don't have to pay no insurance (you may, but your workers don't depend on it). Also, new companies can easily get public funding. Or loans with no interests that are covered by the government. Do companies in different countries get that? Can you get millions in loans at 0 interest that if you can't pay the government will in US? New companies get a very friendly, near 0 taxation for few years, and the more people you employ (especially if young) the more slack on taxes you get. Do companies in countries with lower taxes get that? Mind you, I still believe doing business in Italy is too expensive and beurocracy too high, but there's also very serious benefits of doing it that you don't get in silicon valley where the first wrong swing kills your business and company.
- mattrighetti 4y ago> The exodus of tech talent and lack of startup creation in Italy has worried investors From my experience I can tell that most people here don't want to waste time in a startup with its high risk factor, and it's even more worrying if you come from a college environment where you expect that _Let's do this, I don't care_ kind of attitude. The majority of new grads prefer a secure (and most of the time underpaid) position to pay the bills at the end of the month. It's saddening to see but a lot of my friends, super smart ones included, just opt for low level companies that will never make them grow and will give them the minimum amount of money to make a living (that's what they tell me) while in pretty much the rest of UE they will pay 3x that amount. I think the mentality in Italy is totally different, I know only one person that would have jumped in the startup world at the time and quickly got discouraged because he didn't know how to get funded (probably not the first thing I would consider if I think I have a great idea). The rest of my colleagues wouldn't even want to listen to startup ideas. Also, I think we Italians don't have the market for new tech related startup, our population is very old and they don't really care about new stuff/services coming out as you would expect, launching in the US would be a totally different story. It's a multi variable problem, the lack of ideas is just the tip of the iceberg. It's not that there is a startup creation problem, it's that the few people that want to try out the startup world are smart enough to do it elsewhere where higher chances of success lie. And don't get me started on the bureaucracy part, I'm not well informed on that because I'm pretty sure it would just waste my time.
- zoobab 4y ago"> The exodus of tech talent and lack of startup creation in Italy has worried investors" Working hard for investors and shareholders!
- skrbjc 4y agoThe relationship between people who build companies and work in those companies can be mutually beneficial with investors.
- kungito 4y agoMy impression was that in the US you get compensated pretty nicely while in a startup. The whole idea is to get funded so that you can attract talent with crazy salaries. Or did I get something wrong?
- 7723 4y agoReminds me of: https://www.h-farm.com/en https://www.h-farm.com/en which attempted that in the past.
- dotancohen 4y agoTitle: "Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator" Piacentini's own words: "We have no ambition to emulate the likes of Y Combinator" I agree with HN's reluctance to alter titles, but in cases where the title itself a lie, clickbait, or gross exaggeration I think that it should be edited.
- gman83 4y agoThe full quote: “We have no ambition to emulate the likes of Y Combinator, or even Kima Ventures, from the start. But we aspire to what they have built — our ultimate goal is to get to that level.”. When read like this it sounds like eventually he would like to build something like Y Combinator.
- highhedgehog 4y agoI will believe it when I see it
- JoeAltmaier 4y agoMaybe a sort of conglomerate, where each new 'startup' is part of an existing company. Would that avoid some of the bureacracy?
- jbverschoor 4y agoBuilding a Ferrari is just some wheels and red paint.. I think anyone can build that as well.
- jtwaleson 4y agoI’ve thought of setting up a retreat center in southern Italy for tech teams. Like: take your team and work together remotely for a week. The center will have high end equipment, good furniture, whiteboards etc. Why southern Italy? The climate is great, there are lots of subsidies available, land is cheap and cost of living is low. I’d call it Sicilian Valley.
- muxator 4y agoPlease do.
- bjelkeman-again 4y agoIt is a lot of work to create a business ecosystem that is able to nurture startups. I have some experience gathered over the years from Silicon Valley, London, Amsterdam, Bangalore, and now most recently Stockholm. There are drawbacks and benefits to all of them. The EU based startup environments suffer heavily from relatively smaller amounts of money available for the same thing (often an order of magnitude), and a fragmented starting market. The startup market in the EU is also fragmented over nearly every capital city in each country. In Stockholm, where I am now, there has been reasonable progress. But it feels like we are nearly where the Valley was in 2000. (That is exaggerated, it is better) A key takeaway for me from efforts like what the article describes is that a lot of it feels like cargo culting. “If we are more like Y-Combinator (replace with suitable other aspect of the Valley) we will succeed.” Where what is missing are things that are hard to bootstrap: large amounts of capital, capital willing to take risks, investors that invest in bold efforts, experienced and successful investors, successful entrepreneurs that go another round, a common market with similar rules, regulations and language; and more things I am missing (much mentioned in other comments). Things are getting better, but it is still a challenge in the EU. However, looking at some of the valuations I see in the US, it appears there are bargains to be had in the top EU startup spots, where Stockholm is a good candidate.
- mxschumacher 4y agoIt is misleading to call Exor the owner of Ferrari, they hold a 22.9% economic interest [0]. [0] https://www.exor.com/pages/companies-investments/companies/ferrari https://www.exor.com/pages/companies-investments/companies/f...