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ArtFrame: E-paper wireless artwork for your living room
- paxys 4y agoI was moderately excited when I saw the photos, but wow those prices! 900 € for a 13 inch screen? For comparison, you can get a 55" Samsung Frame TV for cheaper than that. Digital photo frames are under $100. I like e-ink, but not that much.
- flatiron 4y agoEink is just really expensive right now. I believe that it’s heavily patented and only one or two places produces the panels.
- archerx 4y agoNo they're not that expensive, I bought a 7 color epaper panel for 60$ for a e-comic book project. You could make one of these frames and save 400-500$ https://www.waveshare.com/product/displays/e-paper/13.3inch-e-paper-hat.htm https://www.waveshare.com/product/displays/e-paper/13.3inch-... ^ Here is a 13inch high resolution epaper screen that I found.
- goosedragons 4y agoThey are expensive compared to traditional LCDs, you can easily buy a portable 13" 1080p monitor that includes all the parts to hook it up to a computer, a plastic case etc. for less than $200. Heck you can even get a 2560x1600 one for less than $200 taking a quick peek at Amazon.
- m-p-3 4y agoThe economies of scale applies here: E-Ink panels certainly don't have the same scale in term of sales compared to LCD though, and I don't see this changing at the consumer level.
- robinsoh 4y ago> Eink is just really expensive I am curious what volumes you are buying and which panels and how you're judging whether something is expensive or not. > I believe that it’s heavily patented and only one or two places produces the panels. I would ask that these repeated claims would come with some evidence. The previous times I asked the respondents just did patents.google.com/search?eink and treated that as evidence. For an analogy, if I said something like: Coca cola is just really expensive right now. I believe that it’s heavily patented and only one or two places produces the syrup. or Windows is just really expensive right now. I believe that it’s heavily patented and only one or two places produces the operating system. would you feel my claim was accurate?
- techsin101 4y agodifference between cola and eink might be that one was able to find market from get go and built business to industrialized scale, whereas, eink struggles to find a market at this price but won't also be generous with patent to make ROI work for other 3rd parties to make big investments.
- robinsoh 4y ago> won't also be generous with patent to make ROI work for other 3rd parties to make big investments. Which patent? Please help me understand by being specific. Which patent needs to expire or get canceled to enable something (which I also don't understand what that thing would be). See my past comments about the physics of electrophoretics being the limitation. I work in the display industry and to be blunt, I don't really have any idea what your comment means.
- mdorazio 4y agoSeems pretty obvious that it's expensive compared to the alternatives. Which in this case are regular LCD panels. Yes I know, the use cases are slightly different, power consumption is much lower, etc. etc. Doesn't matter - most people want to use an e-ink display to... display stuff on a screen, which they can get in the LCD variety for a fraction of the price.
- Animats 4y agoThat's the problem. This is an obvious product. You've been able to buy digital picture frames at WalMart for a decade. But the price point for E-Ink displays is insane. There's another persistent display technology, cholesteric displays. These seem to have disappeared. Sparkfun used to sell small ones.[1] [1]https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/LCD/LCD-09560-25075g_240x160_SPI_datasheet.pdf https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/LCD/LCD-09560-25075g_240...
- bambax 4y agoWould it not be possible to hack an old Kindle (or other e-reader) to do the same thing? They go for pretty cheap on eBay.
- leokennis 4y agoExactly...as an example: The ArtFrame 6": - Has a 166 PPI 6 inch eInk screen - Can store 150 pictures (let's be generous and presume it has 1 GB of internal storage) - Costs €349 The Kobo Clara HD ereader: - Has a 300 PPI 6 inch eInk screen - Has 8 GB of internal storage - Costs €140
- Beltalowda 4y agoI got a PocketBook e-reader with a 6" 300PPI screen for €100. You can add your own software to it (e.g. KOReader), and with a little bit of software to automatically change the pictures it would do exactly the same as this. You can get larger eReaders with similar quality for not much more. The only difference with this ArtFrame is that the frame around the display doesn't look as nice, but that's also a fixable problem with a minimum of technical chops. 6" is also really small for an art display IMO. Even 13.3" is kinda small. If they would be offering a much larger 40" art display I might consider it for €900, depending on picture quality. But at this price 150/166 ppi display is just bonkers.
- m463 4y agoThis is nice, and very refined. It's nice that it is standalone and doesn't force you to go through an app or "the cloud". loosely related is inkplate, which is a wall-mountable DIY e-ink project: https://www.crowdsupply.com/search?q=inkplate https://www.crowdsupply.com/search?q=inkplate
- UncleOxidant 4y agoInkplate is a lot more affordable than ArtFrame.
- m463 4y agoand a lot more DIY
- libraryatnight 4y agoThis is neat, but it looks like something the HN crowd would build themselves over buying. I know my first impulse was "I could make this..."
- Mandatum 4y agoeInk/ePaper displays aren't cheap and getting them cheap requires buying pre-loved devices. The only way to drive down costs right now is bulk ordering. Unless your time is worth less than say $25/hr, this is likely much cheaper than building.
- ilrwbwrkhv 4y agoMost people are not really doing anything that important where they need to worry about their per hour time.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- libraryatnight 4y agoI don't really think a person building this would factor wage since it - in my case at least - would be fore fun. That said eink displays are expensive but I feel like one could find one and come in to close to or under the cost of the ArtFrame. https://shopkits.eink.com https://shopkits.eink.com - has some good options. Not arguing my aunt would build this, just that a lot of the HN crowd could and often are of the tinkering type to find that sort of project enjoyable :)
- Lio 4y agoI think at those price points I'd be tempted to just find something like a 10.3" Kobo Elipsa on sale and see if I could hack it to display a slide show. Wouldn't be as pretty as this but it's much higher resolution at 227ppi. Maybe that's the unique selling point of this; a nice presentable frame and photo matte.
- kderbyma 4y agodon't you need to charge them eventually? so you end up taking them down a lot. they should think about wireless charging pads that can be installed into the wall for these sorts of things.
- lnyng 4y agoBut that requires a wire that goes from the outlet all the way to the charge pad though, right? I think the main goal is to have no visible wire when it's on the wall. On the other hand 7k image changes before going out of battery seems quite a lot. Just not sure if that's a representative number.
- technobabbler 4y agoEven if you completely run out of power, the screen should stay on the last image it was showing. You might just see the same picture for days/weeks/several heat deaths until you decide to charge it again.
- pastrami_panda 4y agoSounds like a good idea. Just anecdotally I found it pretty fascinating that I bought a new Kindle some three months ago and it still hasn't run out of batteries (came with 76% and now at 16%). Admittedly I haven't been using it a lot though.
- blacksmith_tb 4y agoMy experience with Kindles is that the battery drain is all about wifi - if you keep it in 'airplane mode' most of the time (except to send new content to it / return library books early etc.) it can last for months on a charge.
- nsriv 4y agoI wonder if trickle charging with a few calculator-type solar cells on each edge of the frame (not the face of the frame) would be feasible as well to prolong battery life.
- klondike_ 4y ago
- lnyng 4y agoI was recently searching for wedding gift for my photographer friend and found this. There does not seem to exist many other e-paper art frames and this one looks decent. It also has some open source software (https://github.com/framelabs-eu https://github.com/framelabs-eu), but the firmware seems closed-source.
- tcyrus 4y agoI was considering making something like this. Might look into buying this to save some time.
- tarsiel 4y agoVery much on the DIY end, but I made a similar e-ink art piece that shows off the currently playing song on Spotify. I used a 3 colour display to add some flair :) It’s not the easiest to set up yourself - need to generate Spotify API keys and build the unnecessary separate binary for dithering, but here’s the project if anyone is interested! https://github.com/CampbellOwen/NowPlaying https://github.com/CampbellOwen/NowPlaying
- technobabbler 4y agoHow much did the hardware cost? Is e-ink still super expensive?
- tarsiel 4y agoIt’s not bad! This is the display I’m using: https://www.waveshare.com/product/displays/e-paper/5.83inch-e-paper-hat-b.htm https://www.waveshare.com/product/displays/e-paper/5.83inch-... You can use any raspberry pi to drive it (or any microcontroller really) which is pretty cheap too.
- ge96 4y agoThat's interesting the three color thing didn't know that was a thing
- Phrenzy 4y agoCheck this out: https://thepihut.com/products/inky-impression-4-7-colour-epaper-eink-hat https://thepihut.com/products/inky-impression-4-7-colour-epa...
- GekkePrutser 4y agoOh nice they are actually in stock again. They were unavailable so long I stopped checking. Thanks for the tip
- 4y ago
- vmurthy 4y agoStarts at EUR 349 in case someone is just looking at the website to find out the prices (like I did) :)
- freewizard 4y agoI'm looking for a case for Kindle Paperwhite to make it look like this.
- davidsawyer 4y agoAm I going crazy, or is there no way on the website to actually buy this?
- unfocussed_mike 4y agoIf they get to say 220dpi, 12x8", at least 128 shades of grey and a really, really white "paper", that would be enough for this to be interesting. But they are not there yet. I love black and white but this is not much better than framing a page from a newspaper -- which has an appeal this does not.
- rocqua 4y agoI do wonder what kind of 'contrast ratio' they can get. Though I am not quite familiar with how to measure and define 'contrast ratio' for print. I am sure its complicated.
- Gatsky 4y agoAmazing tech that is too expensive to buy… Reminds me of this: https://www.technologyreview.com/2016/05/04/245988/the-worlds-most-expensive-medicine-is-a-bust/amp/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2016/05/04/245988/the-world...
- api 4y ago> Configurable via web interface, provided by the device. Very much a plus. No cloud means these won't magically stop working at some random time in the future. Also means my picture frame is (probably) not spying on me.
- productceo 4y agoWhat is the customer need being solved, and why is this 900 Euro 13 inch display a better solution than either paper or TV?
- theodric 4y agoFresh art all the time Don't have to print and change the artwork manually No backlight - looks just like real art No cord, battery-powered, lasts a long time
- productceo 4y agoI see. I'm not a target customer, but curious to see if customers do value those attributes and buy this product.
- smcleod 4y agoIt's such a shame that e-paper / e-ink is so expensive
- greggman3 4y agoI don't know if this would actually work but I've wished for years there were 24" full color e-ink books I could put on my coffee table and have them display coffee table books in full color. I don't know how far away that is from (1) looking as good as color print (2) being relatively sturdy (3) being under $300 so I can buy several. I got rid of all my books at one point and at the time I'd wished I could have scanned all the art books (didn't have the time to arrange it)
- speedyapoc 4y agoThis past week I setup an e-ink display using a 32” screen from Visionect. It displays the front page of the New York Times (setup by following this guide [1]). The compliments from friends/family have been insane. It looks like I cut out the page and put it on the wall. Unfortunately the Visionect solution is fairly cost prohibitive and seems like ArtFrame is in the similar price ballpark. [1] https://alexanderklopping.medium.com/an-updated-daily-front-page-of-the-new-york-times-as-artwork-on-your-wall-3b28c3261478 https://alexanderklopping.medium.com/an-updated-daily-front-...
- edent 4y agoI built one of these with a £40 nook off eBay, a cheap custom sized frame, and some open source software. https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2021/09/turning-an-eink-screen-into-a-monochrome-art-gallery/ https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2021/09/turning-an-eink-screen-into... It has been a great way to subtly discover new art. As everyone has said, eink is amazing - but the price is ridiculous.
- 999900000999 4y agoI'm feeling good tonight, feeling like wasting some money. When I looked at the landing page, I kept saying please be $200 or less, alas, it's almost $400. I also tried to build this myself, and nothing happened but my Raspberry pi started to overheat
- j7ake 4y agoInteresting but at 1000 bucks I would just buy art from my local artist and hang it on my wall.
- voldacar 4y agoWhen can I get one that's several feet x several feet in dimensions, like an actual painting's canvas? Eink has been around for several years now but apparently they are unable to just make a big panel? That combined with their idiotic pricing scheme makes me think their management is just stupid
- Beltalowda 4y agoIf you want to shell out $1500 you can get a 31.2" display[1], $2500 for a 42" one[2]. There's a colour version of that 31.2" one for $2300[3]. The problem isn't inability to make them or "stupid management", just that there isn't a whole lot of demand for these sizes. E-ink displays are great but come with some serious limitations and trade-offs: colour displays are in its infancy at best and refresh rates are an issue. This limits its usage to cases where colour and refreshing isn't very important, but where good legibility and power usage are. The two most common are e-readers and store signage, but the demand for very large displays in that area is very limited. For an art display the refresh rate isn't a big issue and low power would be a huge boon, but lack of good colour would be more of an issue. [1]: https://shopkits.eink.com/product/31-2%cb%9d-monochrome-epaper-display-va3200-qaa/ https://shopkits.eink.com/product/31-2%cb%9d-monochrome-epap... [2]: https://shopkits.eink.com/product/42%cb%9d-monochrome-epaper-display-vb3300-rba/ https://shopkits.eink.com/product/42%cb%9d-monochrome-epaper... [3]: https://shopkits.eink.com/product/31-2%cb%9d-color-epaper-display-sb1452-qaa/ https://shopkits.eink.com/product/31-2%cb%9d-color-epaper-di...
- goosedragons 4y agoYou can buy big panels. They use them for digital signage but the prices aren't better. Here's a 42" one for $2500: https://shopkits.eink.com/product/42%CB%9D-monochrome-epaper-display-vb3300-rba/ https://shopkits.eink.com/product/42%CB%9D-monochrome-epaper... Very few companies are making eInk like displays which is why prices are so high.
- robinsoh 4y ago> Very few companies are making eInk like displays which is why prices are so high. Very few customers are buying electrophoretic displays because of their many limitations. That's the real reason why prices are so high. In 2006, a 6" display would have cost maybe 10 grand, maybe even more. Today it is in the order of $25 in volume and that's purely because of the volume behind it. Step off the volume path and into hand kerfed like the 42" you mentioned and suddenly it'll be $2000. It is all about volume. If you want it cheaper, put an order in for a million displays and that'll justify someone's effort to build an actual automated production line for it and it will drop the price by an order of magnitude.
- teleforce 4y agoImagine a full, half or quarter wall size of e-paper that dynamically display all of your ebooks collection as if they are physical copies in your study room, main hall, etc. The main different compared to the physical bookshelf is that it is always updating (round-robin, moving, rotating, etc) thus it can display all your books in a limited e-paper physical gallery space (depending on the installed e-paper size and dimension) but should cover all your ebooks over time.
- Etherlord87 4y agoLooking at the prices I wonder how long you have to wait until the electricity bill for sustaining an image on a normal LCD makes it economically justifiable.