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In Germany you study for free. There was a video (perhaps even from kurzgesagt) which describes how critical it is for our society to allow as many people as e

In Germany you study for free. There was a video (perhaps even from kurzgesagt) which describes how critical it is for our society to allow as many people as easy access to knowledge as possible and not only for obvious reasons but also to increase the chance for all of us that the hidden genius is finding a cure for cancer. You can even study for free in Germany as an non German. You know what happens? Those people might stay in Germany and make Germany a better country. Imagine a world were we compete globally with the best education system. Let's allow more people to shape our future.

frogperson 4y ago
If they made college free in America it would be severely underfunded and suffer all the same problems as American high school. If there is no money in something, then it's assumed there is no value. It's the American way.
- webmaven 4y ago
  > If they made college free in America it would be severely underfunded and suffer all the same problems as American high school. You would only get those same problems if you made college mandatory, as well as free. A real commitment to a policy of free tertiary education would also expand the availability of trade schools not just universities.
  - nebula8804 4y ago
    >A real commitment to a policy of free tertiary education would also expand the availability of trade schools not just universities. This is part of the proposal of progressives. They always emphasized the freedom for a student to choose between trade school or community college, and then move on to a public 4 year school if they chose to do so.
- seibelj 4y ago
  No, it would be extraordinarily funded, but the money would not go to the students. NYC now spends over $30k per year, per student https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-oped-ny-school-spending-results-20211126-qqw55a5eozg2bh6ptdzcm5zr3e-story.html https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-oped-ny-school-spendi... Public education in the US is the most well-funded per student you can find anywhere. Yet somehow it doesn't translate into top-tier teachers nor top-tier outcomes. It's almost like giving huge amounts of money to unaccountable bureaucrats doesn't solve problems.
boppo1 4y ago
Cool, I got a 2.3 GPA in highschool and college but would love to try again. Where should I apply? I don't mind moving to Germany.
- Tretiotrr 4y ago
  You only need to Google for it. https://www.mygermanuniversity.com/universities https://www.mygermanuniversity.com/universities You are a little bit limited by what you like to study if you don't speak German as not every university offers a bachelor in English but it's doable.
  - selimthegrim 4y ago
    I think an American HS diploma doesn't qualify you for admission unless you do well on the SAT or ACT.
    - boppo1 4y ago
      I've got a bachelors and I did excellent on my ACT... 14 years ago.
walkhour 4y ago
What do you think about German kids being sent to different kinds of highschools at age 10. Most of the people attending Hauptschule don't attend university [0]. In some regions 60% of the children attend it. Aren't you concerned that the person who could discover the cure for cancer is in Hauptschule right now? Imagine a Germany in which the rest of your life isn't determined at age ten. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hauptschule https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hauptschule
- sarpeedo 4y ago
  In fact Uğur Şahin CEO of BioNTech and co-inventor of the Pfizer-BioNTech mRNA vaccine was recommended by his teacher to attend a hauptschule. If his German neighbor hadn't intervened and stood up for him he may have never attended university let alone get a doctorate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uğur_Şahin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uğur_Şahin
  - djenendik 4y ago
    Sounds like the system worked in that case? As in it adjusted to new information that it was missing. This is not the case in the US.
- maze-le 4y ago
  > Imagine a Germany in which the rest of your life isn't determined at age ten What you imply here is entierly untrue. I know lots of people that made their Abitur after having been to the Haupt- or Realschule first. That is not to say that the school system doesn't have its problems -- it clearly has -- but you are painting a picture that is not rooted in reality.
- Bromeo 4y ago
  Germany has three “tiers” of secondary education, of which only finishing the highest will qualify you for university admission. The rationale is that not everybody benefits from learning latin or higher mathematics, when instead a focus on more trade-related skills might benefit you much more in your further career. For late-bloomers, which might suffer under this system, it is still possible to progress from Hauptschule to Realschule and finally Gymnasium and university, without significant financial means necessary (besides cost of living). Also, the average attendance for Hauptschule is <10% [1]. Wouldn’t you agree that at least 10% of kids would benefit from having an education experience more tailored to their needs instead of building resentment for education by being forced to sit through terribly boring lessons with the nerds knowing the answer for everything? [1]: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schulsystem_in_Deutschland#Sch%C3%BClerzahlen https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schulsystem_in_Deutschland#Sch...
flatiron 4y ago
I think the argument would be better if Germany was some sort of education haven. My cousin fosters study abroad kids in the US and most are German. They say the German education isn’t anything to tout and having an American education on your CV is a big +. I’m not saying this whole thing is perfect but I just don’t see anyone banging down the doors for a German education.
- manuelabeledo 4y ago
  > They say the German education isn’t anything to tout and having an American education on your CV is a big +. Having lived in Europe for 30+ years, I have never heard of this outside higher education at very famous institutions, e.g. Stanford, Harvard, MIT. In fact, primary and secondary schools in the US are usually seen as quite insufficient.
  - flatiron 4y ago
    Where in Europe? I’ve hired in both Portugal and Germany and have seen a ton of US education. This is for developer positions I would expect it different if you are hiring line cooks.
    - manuelabeledo 4y ago
      I don’t quite understand where you are going with this. Have you hired US nationals, or US educated people? Either way, I haven’t seen many US educated people in Europe, and especially in Portugal. > This is for developer positions I would expect it different if you are hiring line cooks. I’m a lead engineer myself. Again, I yet have to find anyone in Europe who would have primary and secondary education in the US in high consideration. In fact, after traveling in Asia, I had somewhat the same experience: top US universities were highly valued, but anything below that was mostly dismissed.
      - flatiron 4y ago
        For both places I was simply filling roles. I think maybe 80% local and 20% us nationals? Maybe 90/10? Probably 50% had US educations listed. Maybe 40%? But it’s not like I didn’t see any. I’m not sure what you think is surprising. US people study abroad too. It’s very common and tech people tend to pick US because it’s heavy in tech.
valzam 4y ago
If only Germany were smart enough to give people who study here a 2-3 year work visa after they finish their studies. As it is you still need to find an employer willing to sponsor you (which at least is easy if you earn a lot).
- Bromeo 4y ago
  While this criticism is true for non-EU / EFTA citizens, every citizen from an EU country can freely work in Germany (or any other EU country).
mrjangles 4y ago
>In Germany you study for free. By "free" I think what you are trying to say is that in Germany working class people, the majority of whom don't go to college, pay for rich kids to go to college, rather than having those people pay for themselves.

frogperson 4y ago

If they made college free in America it would be severely underfunded and suffer all the same problems as American high school. If there is no money in something, then it's assumed there is no value. It's the American way.

webmaven 4y ago
> If they made college free in America it would be severely underfunded and suffer all the same problems as American high school. You would only get those same problems if you made college mandatory, as well as free. A real commitment to a policy of free tertiary education would also expand the availability of trade schools not just universities.
- nebula8804 4y ago
  >A real commitment to a policy of free tertiary education would also expand the availability of trade schools not just universities. This is part of the proposal of progressives. They always emphasized the freedom for a student to choose between trade school or community college, and then move on to a public 4 year school if they chose to do so.
seibelj 4y ago
No, it would be extraordinarily funded, but the money would not go to the students. NYC now spends over $30k per year, per student https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-oped-ny-school-spending-results-20211126-qqw55a5eozg2bh6ptdzcm5zr3e-story.html https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-oped-ny-school-spendi... Public education in the US is the most well-funded per student you can find anywhere. Yet somehow it doesn't translate into top-tier teachers nor top-tier outcomes. It's almost like giving huge amounts of money to unaccountable bureaucrats doesn't solve problems.

boppo1 4y ago

Cool, I got a 2.3 GPA in highschool and college but would love to try again. Where should I apply? I don't mind moving to Germany.

Tretiotrr 4y ago
You only need to Google for it. https://www.mygermanuniversity.com/universities https://www.mygermanuniversity.com/universities You are a little bit limited by what you like to study if you don't speak German as not every university offers a bachelor in English but it's doable.
- selimthegrim 4y ago
  I think an American HS diploma doesn't qualify you for admission unless you do well on the SAT or ACT.
  - boppo1 4y ago
    I've got a bachelors and I did excellent on my ACT... 14 years ago.

walkhour 4y ago

What do you think about German kids being sent to different kinds of highschools at age 10. Most of the people attending Hauptschule don't attend university [0]. In some regions 60% of the children attend it. Aren't you concerned that the person who could discover the cure for cancer is in Hauptschule right now? Imagine a Germany in which the rest of your life isn't determined at age ten. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hauptschule https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hauptschule

sarpeedo 4y ago
In fact Uğur Şahin CEO of BioNTech and co-inventor of the Pfizer-BioNTech mRNA vaccine was recommended by his teacher to attend a hauptschule. If his German neighbor hadn't intervened and stood up for him he may have never attended university let alone get a doctorate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uğur_Şahin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uğur_Şahin
- djenendik 4y ago
  Sounds like the system worked in that case? As in it adjusted to new information that it was missing. This is not the case in the US.
maze-le 4y ago
> Imagine a Germany in which the rest of your life isn't determined at age ten What you imply here is entierly untrue. I know lots of people that made their Abitur after having been to the Haupt- or Realschule first. That is not to say that the school system doesn't have its problems -- it clearly has -- but you are painting a picture that is not rooted in reality.
Bromeo 4y ago
Germany has three “tiers” of secondary education, of which only finishing the highest will qualify you for university admission. The rationale is that not everybody benefits from learning latin or higher mathematics, when instead a focus on more trade-related skills might benefit you much more in your further career. For late-bloomers, which might suffer under this system, it is still possible to progress from Hauptschule to Realschule and finally Gymnasium and university, without significant financial means necessary (besides cost of living). Also, the average attendance for Hauptschule is <10% [1]. Wouldn’t you agree that at least 10% of kids would benefit from having an education experience more tailored to their needs instead of building resentment for education by being forced to sit through terribly boring lessons with the nerds knowing the answer for everything? [1]: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schulsystem_in_Deutschland#Sch%C3%BClerzahlen https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schulsystem_in_Deutschland#Sch...

flatiron 4y ago

I think the argument would be better if Germany was some sort of education haven. My cousin fosters study abroad kids in the US and most are German. They say the German education isn’t anything to tout and having an American education on your CV is a big +. I’m not saying this whole thing is perfect but I just don’t see anyone banging down the doors for a German education.

manuelabeledo 4y ago
> They say the German education isn’t anything to tout and having an American education on your CV is a big +. Having lived in Europe for 30+ years, I have never heard of this outside higher education at very famous institutions, e.g. Stanford, Harvard, MIT. In fact, primary and secondary schools in the US are usually seen as quite insufficient.
- flatiron 4y ago
  Where in Europe? I’ve hired in both Portugal and Germany and have seen a ton of US education. This is for developer positions I would expect it different if you are hiring line cooks.
  - manuelabeledo 4y ago
    I don’t quite understand where you are going with this. Have you hired US nationals, or US educated people? Either way, I haven’t seen many US educated people in Europe, and especially in Portugal. > This is for developer positions I would expect it different if you are hiring line cooks. I’m a lead engineer myself. Again, I yet have to find anyone in Europe who would have primary and secondary education in the US in high consideration. In fact, after traveling in Asia, I had somewhat the same experience: top US universities were highly valued, but anything below that was mostly dismissed.
    - flatiron 4y ago
      For both places I was simply filling roles. I think maybe 80% local and 20% us nationals? Maybe 90/10? Probably 50% had US educations listed. Maybe 40%? But it’s not like I didn’t see any. I’m not sure what you think is surprising. US people study abroad too. It’s very common and tech people tend to pick US because it’s heavy in tech.

valzam 4y ago

If only Germany were smart enough to give people who study here a 2-3 year work visa after they finish their studies. As it is you still need to find an employer willing to sponsor you (which at least is easy if you earn a lot).

Bromeo 4y ago
While this criticism is true for non-EU / EFTA citizens, every citizen from an EU country can freely work in Germany (or any other EU country).

mrjangles 4y ago

>In Germany you study for free. By "free" I think what you are trying to say is that in Germany working class people, the majority of whom don't go to college, pay for rich kids to go to college, rather than having those people pay for themselves.