6 ms·

After reading your comment, I think it hasn't gone far enough.

by lashloch 5y ago

hpvic03 5y ago
... and my crime is? Mentioning the idea of wrongthink? You're kind of proving my point.
- fennecs 5y ago
  [flagged]
  - moltke 5y ago
    >the last American president was a right wing racist Nazi If you go and ask the actual Nazis (or NatSocs as they prefer) they'll tell you they don't like him because he was not a right wing racist Nazi. CivNat maybe (but if he really is he toned it done a lot to pander to minorities) certainly not a Nazi.
    - ncmncm 5y ago
      He is just a grifter who knows his marks. He doesn't actually believe in anything, as such. (That does not make him better than an actual Nazi.)
  - overgard 5y ago
    I think your post encapsulates what irks a lot of people about the "woke". There's no room for nuance or analysis, just a lot of overdramatized labels (nazi? really? you are aware of what the real nazis did right? stop cheapening history just to increase the temperature of the debate)
    - fennecs 5y ago
      What is the nuanced thing you want to discuss? Maybe just talk about something specific instead of just some broad “woke has gone to far”.
      - overgard 5y ago
        > What is the nuanced thing you want to discuss? Huh? Clearly this entire topic is a meta-topic. I have no particular axe to grind at the moment. > Maybe just talk about something specific instead of just some broad “woke has gone to far”. Well, I'm not the one regularly calling anyone I disagree with a Nazi Sympathizer. I'm not sure I've ever needed to, because the actual nazi sympathizers tend to be pretty explicit and proud of their views, and easy to avoid. People are free to lob that around labels like that if they want, but it's going to result in me not taking them seriously. To me, when I hear someone being called a "nazi sympathizer" I just assume that means "I really dislike that person"; which is very unfortunate in a boy-who-cried-wolf sense because I absolutely would like to know who the true nazi sympathizers are.
        fennecs 5y ago
        >"Wokeness has gone too far, but I don't really have any concrete examples, I just guess it has somehow haha" I mean you have to have something to make such a claim in your op. As for Trump, yes maybe they are not precisely but lets be honest - Using fascist political tactics - Said explicitly "Hitler did a lot of good things", doesn't seem a great move to have on the record unless its just to appeal to more radical people. - Hired officials with ties to white nationalist groups. - Empathised with neo Nazis in Charlottesville, eg Proud Boys. - Endorses violence on external/opposition groups. So come on, while themselves are not technically a fascist he definitely responsible for eroding democracy and liberalism. They are a right wing populist. I think it's fair to say sympathiser considering all of this. I feel they deliberately make it murky, more like leaving the door open to more radical people, while still being palatable for the less radicalised. A pretty serious and dangerous situation. Far more than some perceived "woke-ism".
        overgard 5y ago
        I'm amused you "quoted" me for something I didn't say. If there is a specific thing I hate about the "woke" it's that they're dishonest. I have no love for Trump, but if you want to be all political Obama kept all the worst policies of the Bush presidency (especially the wall street stuff). Worse, he escalated the drone strikes. IE, murdering people. Trump strikes me as run of the mill bad, so when I hear histrionics I generally assume its from someone that has no context of history. Your argument style is to put words into other peoples mouths. Stop fighting straw men. Hey do you want an example of where wokeness has gone too far? Fallon Fox. They legalized a man beating the shit out of women because he identified as a woman. In my view, that's too far. Unless you want to put words in my mouth again, none of my world view celebrates a man beating up women. So congrats, theres a specific thing.
    - rootusrootus 5y ago
      Would current white supremacists be for or against being conflated with Nazis of times past? Don't they still do the whole swastika thing, even? Do they reject the label? And if so, is that only because of the baggage that comes with it?
  - zozbot234 5y ago
    By and large, the "woke" subculture hates Bernie. They view themselves in opposition to the dreaded "Berniebros".
    - ncmncm 5y ago
      A subset of people have discovered they can harm other people by exercising "wokeism". They should not be confused with people who work to be woke. There are very strong differences among the latter over Bernie, or almost any other political axis.
  - philwelch 5y ago
    > The government of Texas seems to hate trans people. They banned sex changes for minors. That’s not “hating trans people”, that’s just a policy you disagree with when it comes to defining the degree to which a minor is legally capable of consenting to an adult irreversibly altering their body.
    - lurgburg 5y ago
      Presumably we're banning braces as well then.
      - jl6 5y ago
        The Texas law is based on a theory of there being a fundamental right to procreate, which is harmed by the sterilization effect of many gender-related procedures. If you could come up with a theory of harm for braces, you could make a case for banning them too. But I doubt it would be as grave a harm as removing sexual function.
- lashloch 5y ago
  Your "crime" is over-acting as you nail yourself to an imaginary cross. Can you be specific about some of the things you believe are "wrongthink" in the eyes of "wokeism"? (Only if you feel safe doing so, of course...)

After reading your comment, I think it hasn't gone far enough.

hpvic03 5y ago

... and my crime is? Mentioning the idea of wrongthink? You're kind of proving my point.

fennecs 5y ago
[flagged]
- moltke 5y ago
  >the last American president was a right wing racist Nazi If you go and ask the actual Nazis (or NatSocs as they prefer) they'll tell you they don't like him because he was not a right wing racist Nazi. CivNat maybe (but if he really is he toned it done a lot to pander to minorities) certainly not a Nazi.
  - ncmncm 5y ago
    He is just a grifter who knows his marks. He doesn't actually believe in anything, as such. (That does not make him better than an actual Nazi.)
- overgard 5y ago
  I think your post encapsulates what irks a lot of people about the "woke". There's no room for nuance or analysis, just a lot of overdramatized labels (nazi? really? you are aware of what the real nazis did right? stop cheapening history just to increase the temperature of the debate)
  - fennecs 5y ago
    What is the nuanced thing you want to discuss? Maybe just talk about something specific instead of just some broad “woke has gone to far”.
    - overgard 5y ago
      > What is the nuanced thing you want to discuss? Huh? Clearly this entire topic is a meta-topic. I have no particular axe to grind at the moment. > Maybe just talk about something specific instead of just some broad “woke has gone to far”. Well, I'm not the one regularly calling anyone I disagree with a Nazi Sympathizer. I'm not sure I've ever needed to, because the actual nazi sympathizers tend to be pretty explicit and proud of their views, and easy to avoid. People are free to lob that around labels like that if they want, but it's going to result in me not taking them seriously. To me, when I hear someone being called a "nazi sympathizer" I just assume that means "I really dislike that person"; which is very unfortunate in a boy-who-cried-wolf sense because I absolutely would like to know who the true nazi sympathizers are.
      - fennecs 5y ago
        >"Wokeness has gone too far, but I don't really have any concrete examples, I just guess it has somehow haha" I mean you have to have something to make such a claim in your op. As for Trump, yes maybe they are not precisely but lets be honest - Using fascist political tactics - Said explicitly "Hitler did a lot of good things", doesn't seem a great move to have on the record unless its just to appeal to more radical people. - Hired officials with ties to white nationalist groups. - Empathised with neo Nazis in Charlottesville, eg Proud Boys. - Endorses violence on external/opposition groups. So come on, while themselves are not technically a fascist he definitely responsible for eroding democracy and liberalism. They are a right wing populist. I think it's fair to say sympathiser considering all of this. I feel they deliberately make it murky, more like leaving the door open to more radical people, while still being palatable for the less radicalised. A pretty serious and dangerous situation. Far more than some perceived "woke-ism".
        overgard 5y ago
        I'm amused you "quoted" me for something I didn't say. If there is a specific thing I hate about the "woke" it's that they're dishonest. I have no love for Trump, but if you want to be all political Obama kept all the worst policies of the Bush presidency (especially the wall street stuff). Worse, he escalated the drone strikes. IE, murdering people. Trump strikes me as run of the mill bad, so when I hear histrionics I generally assume its from someone that has no context of history. Your argument style is to put words into other peoples mouths. Stop fighting straw men. Hey do you want an example of where wokeness has gone too far? Fallon Fox. They legalized a man beating the shit out of women because he identified as a woman. In my view, that's too far. Unless you want to put words in my mouth again, none of my world view celebrates a man beating up women. So congrats, theres a specific thing.
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    Would current white supremacists be for or against being conflated with Nazis of times past? Don't they still do the whole swastika thing, even? Do they reject the label? And if so, is that only because of the baggage that comes with it?
- zozbot234 5y ago
  By and large, the "woke" subculture hates Bernie. They view themselves in opposition to the dreaded "Berniebros".
  - ncmncm 5y ago
    A subset of people have discovered they can harm other people by exercising "wokeism". They should not be confused with people who work to be woke. There are very strong differences among the latter over Bernie, or almost any other political axis.
- philwelch 5y ago
  > The government of Texas seems to hate trans people. They banned sex changes for minors. That’s not “hating trans people”, that’s just a policy you disagree with when it comes to defining the degree to which a minor is legally capable of consenting to an adult irreversibly altering their body.
  - lurgburg 5y ago
    Presumably we're banning braces as well then.
    - jl6 5y ago
      The Texas law is based on a theory of there being a fundamental right to procreate, which is harmed by the sterilization effect of many gender-related procedures. If you could come up with a theory of harm for braces, you could make a case for banning them too. But I doubt it would be as grave a harm as removing sexual function.
lashloch 5y ago
Your "crime" is over-acting as you nail yourself to an imaginary cross. Can you be specific about some of the things you believe are "wrongthink" in the eyes of "wokeism"? (Only if you feel safe doing so, of course...)