6 ms·

Interestingly Zelensky might be easier to deepfake than other world leaders because there's more footage and a wider variety of facial expressions to train on d

by fish45 5y ago

Interestingly Zelensky might be easier to deepfake than other world leaders because there's more footage and a wider variety of facial expressions to train on due to his acting career

penjelly 5y ago
the video was pretty obviously fake though imo. i saw more real deepfakes 5 years ago
- dotancohen 5y ago
  Might not be so obvious to a soldier who has slept one hour a night for the past two weeks, eaten only canned corn and tuna, hasn't gotten ammo replenishment in days, and is watching this video on a tiny cracked screen with a dying battery with the volume very low as the internet connection fades in and out.
  - netsharc 5y ago
    Plus, several passes of lossy video compression.
- cryptoegorophy 5y ago
  "imo" is the right word. Majority of people that are not so computer literate will think it is real.
throw_nbvc1234 5y ago
- belter 5y ago
  For him the deep fakes will be used to make considerate and respectful comments, while the real videos will be the outrageous ones :-)
  - jonathanstrange 5y ago
    That might be the best way to make him do something. When he realizes that people think the fake video makes sense, he'll claim the video was real out of spite and start defending a reasonable position.
    - mindslight 5y ago
      Trump never came around to accepting Covid had to be dealt with (doing so would have easily given him a second term), and is just barely starting to condemn Putler. This idea that Trump masterfully chooses his positions based on popular effectiveness is highly overrated.
      - rchaud 5y ago
        With him, everything was a calculation. Admitting COVID was a serious issue was thought to bring an end to the stock market boom, which was the big economic win for his re-election campaign. The market crashed anyway, before recovering ahead of the election. In any case, 2020 might be the first time enough voters realized that a bull run on Wall St doesn't move the needle much for their own economic well-being.
        8note 5y ago
        > In any case, 2020 might be the first time enough voters realized that a bull run on Wall St doesn't move the needle much for their own economic well-being. Wall Street was on a bull run leading into 2016 too, and that realization was one of Trump's arguments at the time. Once he won, he dropped that line, but if 2020 was such a time, I'd count 2016 too
        mindslight 5y ago
        I don't see how this narrative makes sense, and seems to be yet another example of "4d chess". The market promptly dropped ~30% in March 2020 in response to Covid, but was then inflated with trillions of dollars of newly printed stimulus money. Which, as an aside, has finally filtered into the consumer economy causing much of the price inflation we've been suffering. Realizing Covid wasn't going to go away and coming around to addressing Covid in June 2020 or so wouldn't have affected the market, which had already priced in Covid. But it would have made Trump an actual crisis-time leader with the corresponding popularity boost just from leading people through a difficult time - publicly validating the hardships everyone is feeling goes a long way. But instead, he dug his heels in opposition to how things were developing. If anything, I think saying that Trump is a basic contrarian is a better predictor of his positions. The problem is that while our society has major flaws that make contrarian viewpoints compelling, contrarianism on its own does not produce useful reforms.
snek_case 5y ago
That's true for now, but eventually, as the technology progresses, it will take very little training data to create deepfakes of anyone unfortunately. Probably just a minute or two of video.
- hammock 5y ago
  Not to mention, while it could be hard for random online trolls, certain state actors in your country of residence likely already have a ton of your face stored on video, celebrity or not.
- root_axis 5y ago
  Is this true? I don't see much evidence that the technology is progressing in a direction where models will require less training data, if anything the trend seems to be towards models with higher and higher parameter counts.
  - pyentropy 5y ago
    Higher parameter count and less face samples aren't mutually exclusive. You can take a huge GAN and then use a single image of a face as a guide for navigating the latent space.
  - InitialBP 5y ago
    Disclaimer: I know basically nothing about ML. I think the idea is that data needed to imitate a _specific person_ would require less data. Overall a model like that might have orders of magnitude more data in general and maybe a smaller amount required to imitate the features of a particular one. I imagine it like - A master cabinet maker can make new variations of cabinets super easily once they've made hundreds of similar cabinets?
  - bannedbybros 5y ago
  - sailingparrot 5y ago
    It's somewhat true. Better models are coming out which are already pretrained on a significant amount of data, so the model already learned a lot about what is common to all example of video generation (keeping the edges aligned coherently at every frame, keeping texture and lighting coherent etc.) and will not need to re-learn that for every target. Since initially, deepfake models were trained from scratch for every single target, you had to provide a lot of data from the person you want to target so that the model can learn what is common as well as what is specific. Now you can get descent performance with much less data, since you only need to learn the specifities. However, this only helps if you need a limited deepfake: The model cannot infer the exact facial expression of the target when they are, for example, laughing unless you provided an example of that in the training data (assuming there is no way to infer the laughing expression from someone by looking at other provided expressions). It will instead generate a generic laugh. All missing informations are substituted by what was seen, on average, in the pre-training phase. That wouldn't work for a long complex deepfake meant to be sent to someone reasonably close with the target. But for the types of deepfake where it's targeting a personality that we all know, but not very well at all, much less data is neeeded than before for a similar result.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

by fish45 5y ago

Interestingly Zelensky might be easier to deepfake than other world leaders because there's more footage and a wider variety of facial expressions to train on due to his acting career

penjelly 5y ago

the video was pretty obviously fake though imo. i saw more real deepfakes 5 years ago

dotancohen 5y ago
Might not be so obvious to a soldier who has slept one hour a night for the past two weeks, eaten only canned corn and tuna, hasn't gotten ammo replenishment in days, and is watching this video on a tiny cracked screen with a dying battery with the volume very low as the internet connection fades in and out.
- netsharc 5y ago
  Plus, several passes of lossy video compression.
cryptoegorophy 5y ago
"imo" is the right word. Majority of people that are not so computer literate will think it is real.

throw_nbvc1234 5y ago

belter 5y ago
For him the deep fakes will be used to make considerate and respectful comments, while the real videos will be the outrageous ones :-)
- jonathanstrange 5y ago
  That might be the best way to make him do something. When he realizes that people think the fake video makes sense, he'll claim the video was real out of spite and start defending a reasonable position.
  - mindslight 5y ago
    Trump never came around to accepting Covid had to be dealt with (doing so would have easily given him a second term), and is just barely starting to condemn Putler. This idea that Trump masterfully chooses his positions based on popular effectiveness is highly overrated.
    - rchaud 5y ago
      With him, everything was a calculation. Admitting COVID was a serious issue was thought to bring an end to the stock market boom, which was the big economic win for his re-election campaign. The market crashed anyway, before recovering ahead of the election. In any case, 2020 might be the first time enough voters realized that a bull run on Wall St doesn't move the needle much for their own economic well-being.
      - 8note 5y ago
        > In any case, 2020 might be the first time enough voters realized that a bull run on Wall St doesn't move the needle much for their own economic well-being. Wall Street was on a bull run leading into 2016 too, and that realization was one of Trump's arguments at the time. Once he won, he dropped that line, but if 2020 was such a time, I'd count 2016 too
      - mindslight 5y ago
        I don't see how this narrative makes sense, and seems to be yet another example of "4d chess". The market promptly dropped ~30% in March 2020 in response to Covid, but was then inflated with trillions of dollars of newly printed stimulus money. Which, as an aside, has finally filtered into the consumer economy causing much of the price inflation we've been suffering. Realizing Covid wasn't going to go away and coming around to addressing Covid in June 2020 or so wouldn't have affected the market, which had already priced in Covid. But it would have made Trump an actual crisis-time leader with the corresponding popularity boost just from leading people through a difficult time - publicly validating the hardships everyone is feeling goes a long way. But instead, he dug his heels in opposition to how things were developing. If anything, I think saying that Trump is a basic contrarian is a better predictor of his positions. The problem is that while our society has major flaws that make contrarian viewpoints compelling, contrarianism on its own does not produce useful reforms.

snek_case 5y ago

That's true for now, but eventually, as the technology progresses, it will take very little training data to create deepfakes of anyone unfortunately. Probably just a minute or two of video.

hammock 5y ago
Not to mention, while it could be hard for random online trolls, certain state actors in your country of residence likely already have a ton of your face stored on video, celebrity or not.
root_axis 5y ago
Is this true? I don't see much evidence that the technology is progressing in a direction where models will require less training data, if anything the trend seems to be towards models with higher and higher parameter counts.
- pyentropy 5y ago
  Higher parameter count and less face samples aren't mutually exclusive. You can take a huge GAN and then use a single image of a face as a guide for navigating the latent space.
- InitialBP 5y ago
  Disclaimer: I know basically nothing about ML. I think the idea is that data needed to imitate a _specific person_ would require less data. Overall a model like that might have orders of magnitude more data in general and maybe a smaller amount required to imitate the features of a particular one. I imagine it like - A master cabinet maker can make new variations of cabinets super easily once they've made hundreds of similar cabinets?
- bannedbybros 5y ago
- sailingparrot 5y ago
  It's somewhat true. Better models are coming out which are already pretrained on a significant amount of data, so the model already learned a lot about what is common to all example of video generation (keeping the edges aligned coherently at every frame, keeping texture and lighting coherent etc.) and will not need to re-learn that for every target. Since initially, deepfake models were trained from scratch for every single target, you had to provide a lot of data from the person you want to target so that the model can learn what is common as well as what is specific. Now you can get descent performance with much less data, since you only need to learn the specifities. However, this only helps if you need a limited deepfake: The model cannot infer the exact facial expression of the target when they are, for example, laughing unless you provided an example of that in the training data (assuming there is no way to infer the laughing expression from someone by looking at other provided expressions). It will instead generate a generic laugh. All missing informations are substituted by what was seen, on average, in the pre-training phase. That wouldn't work for a long complex deepfake meant to be sent to someone reasonably close with the target. But for the types of deepfake where it's targeting a personality that we all know, but not very well at all, much less data is neeeded than before for a similar result.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]