6 ms·

"Although induction technology has been around for decades and is established in Europe, it has yet to catch on extensively here. According to Consumer Reports,

"Although induction technology has been around for decades and is established in Europe, it has yet to catch on extensively here. According to Consumer Reports, induction cooktops and ranges are installed in only under 5 percent of homes in the United States." That's why, for a european like me, an article like this one seems totally extraneous to hacker news front page

benoliver999 5y ago
I do think I could use an upgrade though, my induction hub just clicks on and off PWM style. Not great for a steady heat. Having read this article I noticed that they aren't all like this.
- schroeding 5y ago
  Can absolutely recommend the upgrade, these stoves are far superior to PWM style "2000W or off" ones. I can even melt chocolate without a water bath on mine, they can keep temperatures as low as 55°C / 131°F steadily no problem. :D
  - angry_octet 5y ago
    I just have to be pedantic and say that what you are describing is the very opposite of PWM, which runs at high frequencies (e.g. 30kHz), varying the duty cycle over the tiny slice of time. The only problem with good PWM is audible harmonics, usually only children can hear them.
    - muxator 5y ago
      I disagree. The definition of what is high and what is low frequency depends on what you are comparing. If you are comparing electric capacitances of electric circuits vs the thermal capacitance of a macroscopic object, 1 Hz might be a high enough frequency for doing pwm.
      - benoliver999 5y ago
        Also, the 'exact opposite' would simply be a gas hob. Yeah you might not call something that clicks on and off every 10 seconds 'PWM' but it's not that far removed
    - sidpatil 5y ago
      > I just have to be pedantic and say that what you are describing is the very opposite of PWM, which runs at high frequencies (e.g. 30kHz), varying the duty cycle over the tiny slice of time. Yes, this is correct. What parent is describing is generally referred to as bang-bang control [1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bang–bang_control https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bang–bang_control
    - carterschonwald 5y ago
      Those whines drive me crazy and I’m 34! Do any induction cooktops not have that terrible whine? At least with the duxtop portable induction I had to return it because the whine was so bad. Which leads to the question : which ones do not have a whine? Does the breville? Or which? It’s not something any reviews I’ve seen talk about
      - namibj 5y ago
        They can work at frequencies and with electronic designs that are far out into the ultrasonic range. You may want to check out those that apparently can handle non-magnetic cookware; those apparently run on higher frequencies to make up for the weaker magnetic effect.
        carterschonwald 5y ago
        Cool! What are examples of this? It’s really hard to find the data sheets for these. Or at least I couldn’t
    - schroeding 5y ago
      Ah, you're right, thank you! I just reused the words of the parent :D
    - leoedin 5y ago
      To be even more pedantic, the grandparent could absolutely be describing PWM - PWM is pulse width modulation - it means that there's a fundamental frequency, and within each cycle the stove is "on" for a period and "off" for the rest. The "on" period length is varied (modulated) based on the power requirement. What "PWM" doesn't define is the fundamental frequency. It could be 0.1 Hz or 10 MHz. Just because the fundamental frequency is slow doesn't make it not PWM.
- contingencies 5y ago
  It may be that your cookware is no good. For safety reasons all control systems for induction appliances have a feature to automatically turn off when they detect that the generated field is not being received by a large enough target surface, since otherwise it would be a fire risk. Try changing cookware, you may find the issue goes away.
  - benoliver999 5y ago
    It's across all my cookware. Pans, cast iron, the coffee maker, the kettle. If I put it on full power, then it's a continuous blast of energy and it never clicks off. That's great for boiling water but not much else. If I put it on 70%, it goes on full power for 7 seconds, then stops for 3, then back on for 7 etc etc.
    - DeRock 5y ago
      Are you sure you don’t have a normal electric stove?
      - benoliver999 5y ago
        Yes, it won't work without a pan on it. Doesn't work with aluminium. Is relatively cold to the touch despite having just been used to boil a kettle. Says 'Induction Hob' on it.
        seanmcdirmid 5y ago
        An induction cooktop with bang-bang control? I guess that is definitely something to look out for and avoid: https://www.avforums.com/threads/are-there-different-types-of-induction-hob-switching-vs-variable-power.2373294/ https://www.avforums.com/threads/are-there-different-types-o...
        benoliver999 5y ago
        It's a smeg if anyone reads this and cares. Probably quite cheap; the previous owner put it in to help sell the house
hades32 5y ago
German here. So few people here have induction because people still think that most pans couldn't be used. But I love it! But also few here use gas. It's mostly ceramic hobs
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Ekaros 5y ago
  Don't have one, but used to have cheap counter top thing. I think only pan or similar I can't use is my ceramic dutch oven. Never browned anything in that one either, so it is pretty academical... Just need to check the pans you pick up and you will be fine in general.
- ascar 5y ago
  As a fellow German I didn't go induction on purpose, because I prefer the ceramic hob cooking experience. "Pans cannot be used" wasn't part of the decision. Having "control nobs" on the front rather than a touch area on the cooking surface was a hard requirement for me though and seems to be getting rarer every year. I'm actually amazed how much people love induction here, but I guess that's also because it's mostly compared to gas?
  - legulere 5y ago
    I have induction with the control nobs to the front in the oven. That does exist, I guess you have to buy it together with the oven. Induction is greatly superior to electric heating plates, ceramic or even metal, as it is much faster and more energy efficient. Whenever you use it you never want to go back.
    - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
      Built-in separate cooktops are only the fashion trend right now, there isn’t anything intrinsic in induction that require such controls. This goes hand in hand with the separate built-in oven trend (often with a second oven or a microwave). Kitchen renovation fashion, I guess.
jandrese 5y ago
They aren't as popular in the US because they're considered commercial appliances and it's assumed you are on a business budget if you want to buy one. This means the store carries like 3 models and they cost literally ten times as much as a traditional glass cooktop. $250 vs. $2500.
- trulyme 5y ago
  Whoa. Is that an import/export opportunity here? In EU the prices of both are comparable.
  - syshum 5y ago
    it is not just the cost of the unit, there are alot of other costs that would go into converting to elec from gas, including running a new outlet, and if you have an older home could require upgrading your entire electrical service.
  - londons_explore 5y ago
    Appliances tend to have a lot of regulations around them. The chance you could commercially import a bunch of appliances from the EU into the USA legally and without substantial modifications is very low.
  - naravara 5y ago
    There are more commercial versions available but they do tend to compete at the higher end of the market. Induction is a specific choice you have to make here and people who make uncommon choices tend to be in higher budgets. It will probably change soon though. A lot of laws are being proposed to not add new gas hookups for new construction. Induction will have to become the higher end default for electric ranges.
  - Ekaros 5y ago
    There is also good to remember that these units at least higher powered are designed for 3-phase 400V that is 3 230V phases. Which I have understood isn't very common or easily available in households in some places around the world.
ginnungagap 5y ago
It also depends where you are in Europe, in Italy gas is still by far the most common way to cook
- petercooper 5y ago
  I'm in the UK and I've never knowingly been in a home that has an induction cooker or know anyone in my personal life with one. Gas is perhaps 90% of what I experience, with the occasional halogen.
  - justincormack 5y ago
    I moved to a UK home with induction. Its not on the gas grid though. Some homes use bottled gas but I think induction is common for that situation. Otherwise I know some apartments with induction. But overall yes, mostly gas hob, although everyone in uk has electric ovens unlike US.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

benoliver999 5y ago

I do think I could use an upgrade though, my induction hub just clicks on and off PWM style. Not great for a steady heat. Having read this article I noticed that they aren't all like this.

schroeding 5y ago
Can absolutely recommend the upgrade, these stoves are far superior to PWM style "2000W or off" ones. I can even melt chocolate without a water bath on mine, they can keep temperatures as low as 55°C / 131°F steadily no problem. :D
- angry_octet 5y ago
  I just have to be pedantic and say that what you are describing is the very opposite of PWM, which runs at high frequencies (e.g. 30kHz), varying the duty cycle over the tiny slice of time. The only problem with good PWM is audible harmonics, usually only children can hear them.
  - muxator 5y ago
    I disagree. The definition of what is high and what is low frequency depends on what you are comparing. If you are comparing electric capacitances of electric circuits vs the thermal capacitance of a macroscopic object, 1 Hz might be a high enough frequency for doing pwm.
    - benoliver999 5y ago
      Also, the 'exact opposite' would simply be a gas hob. Yeah you might not call something that clicks on and off every 10 seconds 'PWM' but it's not that far removed
  - sidpatil 5y ago
    > I just have to be pedantic and say that what you are describing is the very opposite of PWM, which runs at high frequencies (e.g. 30kHz), varying the duty cycle over the tiny slice of time. Yes, this is correct. What parent is describing is generally referred to as bang-bang control [1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bang–bang_control https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bang–bang_control
  - carterschonwald 5y ago
    Those whines drive me crazy and I’m 34! Do any induction cooktops not have that terrible whine? At least with the duxtop portable induction I had to return it because the whine was so bad. Which leads to the question : which ones do not have a whine? Does the breville? Or which? It’s not something any reviews I’ve seen talk about
    - namibj 5y ago
      They can work at frequencies and with electronic designs that are far out into the ultrasonic range. You may want to check out those that apparently can handle non-magnetic cookware; those apparently run on higher frequencies to make up for the weaker magnetic effect.
      - carterschonwald 5y ago
        Cool! What are examples of this? It’s really hard to find the data sheets for these. Or at least I couldn’t
  - schroeding 5y ago
    Ah, you're right, thank you! I just reused the words of the parent :D
  - leoedin 5y ago
    To be even more pedantic, the grandparent could absolutely be describing PWM - PWM is pulse width modulation - it means that there's a fundamental frequency, and within each cycle the stove is "on" for a period and "off" for the rest. The "on" period length is varied (modulated) based on the power requirement. What "PWM" doesn't define is the fundamental frequency. It could be 0.1 Hz or 10 MHz. Just because the fundamental frequency is slow doesn't make it not PWM.
contingencies 5y ago
It may be that your cookware is no good. For safety reasons all control systems for induction appliances have a feature to automatically turn off when they detect that the generated field is not being received by a large enough target surface, since otherwise it would be a fire risk. Try changing cookware, you may find the issue goes away.
- benoliver999 5y ago
  It's across all my cookware. Pans, cast iron, the coffee maker, the kettle. If I put it on full power, then it's a continuous blast of energy and it never clicks off. That's great for boiling water but not much else. If I put it on 70%, it goes on full power for 7 seconds, then stops for 3, then back on for 7 etc etc.
  - DeRock 5y ago
    Are you sure you don’t have a normal electric stove?
    - benoliver999 5y ago
      Yes, it won't work without a pan on it. Doesn't work with aluminium. Is relatively cold to the touch despite having just been used to boil a kettle. Says 'Induction Hob' on it.
      - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
        An induction cooktop with bang-bang control? I guess that is definitely something to look out for and avoid: https://www.avforums.com/threads/are-there-different-types-of-induction-hob-switching-vs-variable-power.2373294/ https://www.avforums.com/threads/are-there-different-types-o...
        benoliver999 5y ago
        It's a smeg if anyone reads this and cares. Probably quite cheap; the previous owner put it in to help sell the house

hades32 5y ago

German here. So few people here have induction because people still think that most pans couldn't be used. But I love it! But also few here use gas. It's mostly ceramic hobs

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Ekaros 5y ago
Don't have one, but used to have cheap counter top thing. I think only pan or similar I can't use is my ceramic dutch oven. Never browned anything in that one either, so it is pretty academical... Just need to check the pans you pick up and you will be fine in general.
ascar 5y ago
As a fellow German I didn't go induction on purpose, because I prefer the ceramic hob cooking experience. "Pans cannot be used" wasn't part of the decision. Having "control nobs" on the front rather than a touch area on the cooking surface was a hard requirement for me though and seems to be getting rarer every year. I'm actually amazed how much people love induction here, but I guess that's also because it's mostly compared to gas?
- legulere 5y ago
  I have induction with the control nobs to the front in the oven. That does exist, I guess you have to buy it together with the oven. Induction is greatly superior to electric heating plates, ceramic or even metal, as it is much faster and more energy efficient. Whenever you use it you never want to go back.
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    Built-in separate cooktops are only the fashion trend right now, there isn’t anything intrinsic in induction that require such controls. This goes hand in hand with the separate built-in oven trend (often with a second oven or a microwave). Kitchen renovation fashion, I guess.

jandrese 5y ago

They aren't as popular in the US because they're considered commercial appliances and it's assumed you are on a business budget if you want to buy one. This means the store carries like 3 models and they cost literally ten times as much as a traditional glass cooktop. $250 vs. $2500.

trulyme 5y ago
Whoa. Is that an import/export opportunity here? In EU the prices of both are comparable.
- syshum 5y ago
  it is not just the cost of the unit, there are alot of other costs that would go into converting to elec from gas, including running a new outlet, and if you have an older home could require upgrading your entire electrical service.
- londons_explore 5y ago
  Appliances tend to have a lot of regulations around them. The chance you could commercially import a bunch of appliances from the EU into the USA legally and without substantial modifications is very low.
- naravara 5y ago
  There are more commercial versions available but they do tend to compete at the higher end of the market. Induction is a specific choice you have to make here and people who make uncommon choices tend to be in higher budgets. It will probably change soon though. A lot of laws are being proposed to not add new gas hookups for new construction. Induction will have to become the higher end default for electric ranges.
- Ekaros 5y ago
  There is also good to remember that these units at least higher powered are designed for 3-phase 400V that is 3 230V phases. Which I have understood isn't very common or easily available in households in some places around the world.

ginnungagap 5y ago

It also depends where you are in Europe, in Italy gas is still by far the most common way to cook

petercooper 5y ago
I'm in the UK and I've never knowingly been in a home that has an induction cooker or know anyone in my personal life with one. Gas is perhaps 90% of what I experience, with the occasional halogen.
- justincormack 5y ago
  I moved to a UK home with induction. Its not on the gas grid though. Some homes use bottled gas but I think induction is common for that situation. Otherwise I know some apartments with induction. But overall yes, mostly gas hob, although everyone in uk has electric ovens unlike US.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]