7 ms·

I know the title is the title on the actual article, but it's the Chinese Red Cross, not China itself. National Red Cross Societies are independent of the count

by irl_ 5y ago

I know the title is the title on the actual article, but it's the Chinese Red Cross, not China itself. National Red Cross Societies are independent of the country's government. They may receive government funding but they decide what they do with the money themselves. From https://www.ifrc.org/fundamental-principles https://www.ifrc.org/fundamental-principles "The Movement is independent. The National Societies, while auxiliaries in the humanitarian services of their governments and subject to the laws of their respective countries, must always maintain their autonomy so that they may be able at all times to act in accordance with the principles of the Movement."

seanmcdirmid 5y ago
The party controls China’s Red Cross. We were highly encouraged to donate during certain events (eg the wenchuan earthquake), to the point that it didn’t really feel optional. And their is a lot of corruption in the Chinese Red Cross that is wrapped around party officials (eg the Guo Meimei incident during the just mentioned earthquake).
NhanH 5y ago
The current president of the Chinese Red Cross is currently vice-chairman of the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress, and previously the Minister of Health. Very hard to believe this is something that could happen without the CCP’s politburo approval
- im3w1l 5y ago
  I think there is a distinction to be made here. It seems unlikely that the politburo would bother approving such a small item as 5m yuan (Less than a million dollar. If you see this as the action of China the country, then a million dollar is basically a symbolic gesture.). However he would not have dared do it if he thought it would have landed him consequences. He made the call that the CCP would let him get away with this.
  - toshk 5y ago
    I don't think you understand how detail oriented they are. Even things as small as international student nights get cancelled at Chinese universities because any form of organization might lead to potential opposition. They simply try to oppose any form of organizing. Same here. China won't even allow local western politicians to meet with a local Taiwenese politician (yes they have such influence, Amsterdam Politicians are not allowed to be on photo with Taiwenese politicians). 100% sure they care about the actions of such a prestigious institute as the Chinese Red cross.
    - rhn_mk1 5y ago
      That reinforces the parent's point. If such a large gesture was approved, then it reflects the position of "China". Alternatively, it reflects that a single official thinks they can get away with it, which means someone in China thinks "China" is not against it.
      - bilbo0s 5y ago
        Or the unfortunate larger truth, that China doesn't care. Maybe they'll give the speeches. Lament the tragic loss of human life. Say whatever polite society expects them to say. But they really don't care when it comes down to it. Someone tried to tell me that a long time ago about a potential war between Iran and Israel. China would make the speeches. Show up at all the meetings. But they really wouldn't care. It wouldn't be a cultural misunderstanding leading it to appear to us that they don't care. It wouldn't be a feigned indifference they act out to gain some negotiating advantage in some other area. They Truly. Wouldn't. Care. They may participate in memorial ceremonies. Perhaps contribute to the reconstruction of affected nations. But for the most part, yeah, they'll just keep marching off to Africa and extracting resources to build China. In essence, maybe they're like us in the West, but with less pretense.
      - csomar 5y ago
        I commented this multiple times here (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30597778 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30597778) People think because China and Russia are both opposed to the USA, then they must be friends. They are not. Especially not if Russia tries to revive the Soviet Union as a concept which hurts China's independence worse than US-type globalism.
Ourgon 5y ago
Is it possible for any large organisation in China to be truly independent from the CCP? I have my severe doubts.
- asimpletune 5y ago
  Yeah it seems that CCP is doing this to add a layer of abstraction and have plausible deniability with their Russian allies perhaps
  - dis-sys 5y ago
    > have plausible deniability with their Russian allies perhaps Russia is China's biggest permanent enemy, with its size and ambitions, together with the fact that it is the only foreign country that still occupy lands traditionally owned by China, you'd need a bullet in the brain to believe that Russia is China's ally. It is the single largest threat to China's security & future stability. Seeing the poor performance of Russia troops in the last two weeks offered huge comfort to many Chinese like myself - a weak Russia & an incapable Russian armed forces is a solid foundation of the peace of our generation.
    - mekster 5y ago
      Enemy it may be but China is a good hedge against sanctions where Russia can still trade without Swift.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - bawolff 5y ago
      Allies tend to be politically convinent, not BFFs forever.
    - justsomehnguy 5y ago
      > a weak Russia & an incapable Russian armed forces is a solid foundation of the peace of our generation. > of the peace of our generation. Thanks, got a laugh from that.
barry-cotter 5y ago
> I know the title is the title on the actual article, but it's the Chinese Red Cross, not China itself. National Red Cross Societies are independent of the country's government. The Chinese government does not tolerate independent power centers. Civil society organizations are either tiny or work extremely closely with the Party-State. The same is true of private companies. If it’s a big company it follows government directives.
jjcc 5y ago
I'm a little surprise that this is even a news. The amount is toot small, not proportional though. The invasion of Russia put China in a dilemma that China can not condemn Russia but on the other hand it does not support the invasion. There are a few reasons: 1.Ukraine has a very friendly relation with China . Not only this government but also earlier ones before the war (Now it might be different). Probably because Ukraine is not ideological. It's only hostile to Russia but not China as it's a "Regime". As a comparison there's another democratic country did the other way 2.The invasion is against China's historic position in UN so not condemning Russia is already a embarrassment. 3.The invasion is against China's interest. Just a some facts: * The trade and exchange of student between 2 countries are quite significant. * The first negotiation between Russia and Ukraine was after a online meeting between Xi and Putin, along with phone call between Foreign ministers of China and Ukraine. There's a speculation but as history shows China like to do things quietly because It's often a more effective way.
luciusdomitius 5y ago
It is $700,000, which in 2022 is not really a significant amount of money. Why the last time I spent that much on something it didn't make the news? I am not China?
- falcolas 5y ago
  > Why the last time I spent that much on something it didn't make the news? Humblebrag much? And no, you're not China, whose government is actively supporting Russia; which means that any humanitarian support flowing from China to Ukraine is news.

by irl_ 5y ago

seanmcdirmid 5y ago

The party controls China’s Red Cross. We were highly encouraged to donate during certain events (eg the wenchuan earthquake), to the point that it didn’t really feel optional. And their is a lot of corruption in the Chinese Red Cross that is wrapped around party officials (eg the Guo Meimei incident during the just mentioned earthquake).

NhanH 5y ago

The current president of the Chinese Red Cross is currently vice-chairman of the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress, and previously the Minister of Health. Very hard to believe this is something that could happen without the CCP’s politburo approval

im3w1l 5y ago
I think there is a distinction to be made here. It seems unlikely that the politburo would bother approving such a small item as 5m yuan (Less than a million dollar. If you see this as the action of China the country, then a million dollar is basically a symbolic gesture.). However he would not have dared do it if he thought it would have landed him consequences. He made the call that the CCP would let him get away with this.
- toshk 5y ago
  I don't think you understand how detail oriented they are. Even things as small as international student nights get cancelled at Chinese universities because any form of organization might lead to potential opposition. They simply try to oppose any form of organizing. Same here. China won't even allow local western politicians to meet with a local Taiwenese politician (yes they have such influence, Amsterdam Politicians are not allowed to be on photo with Taiwenese politicians). 100% sure they care about the actions of such a prestigious institute as the Chinese Red cross.
  - rhn_mk1 5y ago
    That reinforces the parent's point. If such a large gesture was approved, then it reflects the position of "China". Alternatively, it reflects that a single official thinks they can get away with it, which means someone in China thinks "China" is not against it.
    - bilbo0s 5y ago
      Or the unfortunate larger truth, that China doesn't care. Maybe they'll give the speeches. Lament the tragic loss of human life. Say whatever polite society expects them to say. But they really don't care when it comes down to it. Someone tried to tell me that a long time ago about a potential war between Iran and Israel. China would make the speeches. Show up at all the meetings. But they really wouldn't care. It wouldn't be a cultural misunderstanding leading it to appear to us that they don't care. It wouldn't be a feigned indifference they act out to gain some negotiating advantage in some other area. They Truly. Wouldn't. Care. They may participate in memorial ceremonies. Perhaps contribute to the reconstruction of affected nations. But for the most part, yeah, they'll just keep marching off to Africa and extracting resources to build China. In essence, maybe they're like us in the West, but with less pretense.
    - csomar 5y ago
      I commented this multiple times here (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30597778 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30597778) People think because China and Russia are both opposed to the USA, then they must be friends. They are not. Especially not if Russia tries to revive the Soviet Union as a concept which hurts China's independence worse than US-type globalism.

Ourgon 5y ago

Is it possible for any large organisation in China to be truly independent from the CCP? I have my severe doubts.

asimpletune 5y ago
Yeah it seems that CCP is doing this to add a layer of abstraction and have plausible deniability with their Russian allies perhaps
- dis-sys 5y ago
  > have plausible deniability with their Russian allies perhaps Russia is China's biggest permanent enemy, with its size and ambitions, together with the fact that it is the only foreign country that still occupy lands traditionally owned by China, you'd need a bullet in the brain to believe that Russia is China's ally. It is the single largest threat to China's security & future stability. Seeing the poor performance of Russia troops in the last two weeks offered huge comfort to many Chinese like myself - a weak Russia & an incapable Russian armed forces is a solid foundation of the peace of our generation.
  - mekster 5y ago
    Enemy it may be but China is a good hedge against sanctions where Russia can still trade without Swift.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - bawolff 5y ago
    Allies tend to be politically convinent, not BFFs forever.
  - justsomehnguy 5y ago
    > a weak Russia & an incapable Russian armed forces is a solid foundation of the peace of our generation. > of the peace of our generation. Thanks, got a laugh from that.

barry-cotter 5y ago

> I know the title is the title on the actual article, but it's the Chinese Red Cross, not China itself. National Red Cross Societies are independent of the country's government. The Chinese government does not tolerate independent power centers. Civil society organizations are either tiny or work extremely closely with the Party-State. The same is true of private companies. If it’s a big company it follows government directives.

jjcc 5y ago

I'm a little surprise that this is even a news. The amount is toot small, not proportional though. The invasion of Russia put China in a dilemma that China can not condemn Russia but on the other hand it does not support the invasion. There are a few reasons: 1.Ukraine has a very friendly relation with China . Not only this government but also earlier ones before the war (Now it might be different). Probably because Ukraine is not ideological. It's only hostile to Russia but not China as it's a "Regime". As a comparison there's another democratic country did the other way 2.The invasion is against China's historic position in UN so not condemning Russia is already a embarrassment. 3.The invasion is against China's interest. Just a some facts: * The trade and exchange of student between 2 countries are quite significant. * The first negotiation between Russia and Ukraine was after a online meeting between Xi and Putin, along with phone call between Foreign ministers of China and Ukraine. There's a speculation but as history shows China like to do things quietly because It's often a more effective way.

luciusdomitius 5y ago

It is $700,000, which in 2022 is not really a significant amount of money. Why the last time I spent that much on something it didn't make the news? I am not China?

falcolas 5y ago
> Why the last time I spent that much on something it didn't make the news? Humblebrag much? And no, you're not China, whose government is actively supporting Russia; which means that any humanitarian support flowing from China to Ukraine is news.