6 ms·

What are the possibilities for an average russian citizen to leave russia and start over somewhere in the west? How about visas? Does anyone know?

ausudhz 5y ago
If the airspace of half of the world is closed for Russia how you think they can even fly? They've sanctions that would even make it impossible for normal people to do a bank transfer in their "new" country.
- anonymousDan 5y ago
  There are plenty of land borders, a flight isn't necessary.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    This underestimates the size of Russia substantially. Borders to the West are all pretty much closed. Which makes the minimum route 1000's of km with all kinds of complications along the way.
    - ausudhz 5y ago
      When you don't know geography and where the fight is that's what happen. Luckily these people are not working in position of power. Aren't they right? Right? :)
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        One would hope...
  - ausudhz 5y ago
    Yes go and check the distance between the border and the first "valid" Russian city, then do the same from the border to the other side. Then think about the fact that is cold now and, additionally, that the border with Europe is full of military. Now that you consider all tell me where they're supposed to go.
    - gspetr 5y ago
      2 developers I'm in contact with are moving from St.Petersburg to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladikavkaz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladikavkaz and then to Georgia even as we speak, 1 by train, another by plane.
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        They should make it, that's a fairly safe route, the train will take a long time though.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
  > If the airspace of half of the world is closed for Russia how you think they can even fly? First flying to the other half, or taking land transport (at least for the border crossing part).
  - ausudhz 5y ago
    Ya like this is a Hollywood movie and not a freaking war and Russia is not a huge country. Easy to cross it like you're doing a walk with your dog. Not to mention that is cold... But yay lets go and take a walk to the border lol
matgessel 5y ago
https://old.reddit.com/r/IWantOut/ https://old.reddit.com/r/IWantOut/
makeitdouble 5y ago
More than being Russian, the real issue would be to be moving country amidst the pandemic. Although the every day restrictions have been lowered in many countries, they won't be quick to allow for immigration again.
maniflames 5y ago
Definitely, just not right now. As far as I know most western countries have stopped taking in Russian citizens.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
jeffrallen 5y ago
It would be easier to fix your own government. General strike. They can arrest protesters, but they cannot arrest the entire working population.
- nikanj 5y ago
  "They" are also Russians. The key here would be convincing members of the police / army that they should work for the people, not Putin.
  - select-all 5y ago
    Exactly, and not just the police. Some 20-30% of the population are actively supporting the current regime and will stand for it. Even if all state propaganda magically disappears and gets instantly replaced by the West propaganda, it'll take months and months for them to change their stance. People hate being wrong, and even more they hate admitting being wrong. It is a civil war kind of situation we're talking about.
  - Cthulhu_ 5y ago
    That's the real issue right now, the people can do all kinds of civil disobedience, but as long as the police just rounds them up and arrests them by the thousands it won't change anything. I wonder what it'll take. Given that currently the Russian economy is getting decimated, I wonder if it'll take a few weeks or months of not getting paid. But that might just make them more ruthless and make them start extorting people for money, since they still hold power.
    - rurp 5y ago
      In previous eras pay was highly correlated with the ability to project force, since keeping those parties happy was what kept a ruler in power. Given that Putin rules like a petty feudal lord I imagine a similar principle holds here. If police stop getting paid, while having to battle thousands of protesters each day, I expect their loyalty to change very quickly.
anonymousDan 5y ago
My brother was on the verge of traveling to Russia from Latvia recently as a tourist. Apparently you can get a bus from Riga to St Petersburg that takes a few hours. I presume you could take one in the other direction to get around the lack of flights etc, but I have no idea about visas etc.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  You can get to the border, but it will be hard to impossible to cross it legally right now.
  - anonymousDan 5y ago
    Are you living in Russia by any chance? What is the situation there like for westerners at the moment if so (e.g. in St Petersburg)? My brother still wants to go as he has been planning it for ages (he is learning Russian). I am quite concerned for his safety for obvious reasons but he is too stubborn to listen.
    - throwaway6547f 5y ago
      I’m living in Russia. If no one from outside will use nukes, then he will be fine. Everything operates normal, people doing everyday work and relax at the evening. You won’t see much difference from any EU capital in Moscow and St. Petersburg.
9214 5y ago
In 2022: zero, unless you have relatives/friends from abroad who are willing to help. I'm mid-20s below-average Russian born and raised in a city with population of 19k (and declining), Ural region. Average salary here is around 200-300 USD, 400 if you are lucky. I emmigrated in 2019 to work with an international startup in Montenegro: and ended up being ostracized and harassed by my manager from another country (won't point fingers to avoid unnecesary nationalism) on a cultural/ethnical basis; was forced to leave after a year and a half. After that, in 2021, I was offered to come to US by a fellow colleague with Ukranian roots: worker visas were denied to Russian citizens at that point, and most of the embassies were either closed or worked in a limited capacity (also due to pandemic). My last attempt (again in 2021) was to apply for PhD in EPHE institute of France (I have an MS degree in a programme related to medical tech, computer vision, and brain-computer interfaces): I got nothing in response. Since then I have been holed up in my hometown. Another friend of mine proposed some time ago to come to Vietnam: but with the entire world openly opposed to my nation, I doubt that will ever happen.
- modernpink 5y ago
  The Russophobia that has been pouring out is lamentable. And people don't realise this will only push the Russian people further towards Putin to re-establish their pride. And the sanctions are making this even worse. This mirrors Germany's treatment with the Treaty of Versailles leading up to WWII.
  - ceilingcorner 5y ago
    It is really distressing, not only because it’s ethically wrong to blame groups of people for individual actions, but also because it’s pragmatically against the interests of the West. We gain nothing by escalating this.
    - Cthulhu_ 5y ago
      "We" did not escalate this; Russia did by annexing Crimea in 2014 and invading Ukraine. They could have chosen not to do so and instead focus on building up good international relationships. What did they think they had to gain from annexing neighbouring territory? More control over the Black Sea I guess, but why do they want that control in the first place? Russia can de-escalate by withdrawing. The only way for 'the west' to de-escalate at this point is to tell Ukraine to just roll over and get annexed. Is that preferable? And once Russia controls Ukraine, then what? Everybody's happy, and they'll just leave it at that? What is Putin's goals after Ukraine? I'll admit I'm not educated in international politics, I've just pivoted from an armchair virologist to an armchair politician / military expert on the internets.
niek_pas 5y ago
Just to add to what has already been said about money, visas, etc.: you’d also be facing the choice of leaving your family and friends behind.
TheRealNGenius 5y ago
Hey there, I know there are a lot of negative responses to this inquiry in the comments. I'm no expert, but I do genuinely believe that if there is a will, there is a way. I have several elder family members who chose to flee their country and become refugees in the 80's. Eventually, they found their way to the west. For anyone considering starting over elsewhere in another country, do your research, know the risks, and consider the consequences if you truly believe this is what you want.
eps 5y ago
An exhaustive list of visa options for IT/startup people - https://habr.com/ru/post/653587 https://habr.com/ru/post/653587 (from few days ago, in Russian)
sirolf1 5y ago
I'm trying to help a friend to get out of Russia. Someone knows where you can find information about the current options to leave the country>?

ausudhz 5y ago

If the airspace of half of the world is closed for Russia how you think they can even fly? They've sanctions that would even make it impossible for normal people to do a bank transfer in their "new" country.

anonymousDan 5y ago
There are plenty of land borders, a flight isn't necessary.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  This underestimates the size of Russia substantially. Borders to the West are all pretty much closed. Which makes the minimum route 1000's of km with all kinds of complications along the way.
  - ausudhz 5y ago
    When you don't know geography and where the fight is that's what happen. Luckily these people are not working in position of power. Aren't they right? Right? :)
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      One would hope...
- ausudhz 5y ago
  Yes go and check the distance between the border and the first "valid" Russian city, then do the same from the border to the other side. Then think about the fact that is cold now and, additionally, that the border with Europe is full of military. Now that you consider all tell me where they're supposed to go.
  - gspetr 5y ago
    2 developers I'm in contact with are moving from St.Petersburg to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladikavkaz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladikavkaz and then to Georgia even as we speak, 1 by train, another by plane.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      They should make it, that's a fairly safe route, the train will take a long time though.
tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
> If the airspace of half of the world is closed for Russia how you think they can even fly? First flying to the other half, or taking land transport (at least for the border crossing part).
- ausudhz 5y ago
  Ya like this is a Hollywood movie and not a freaking war and Russia is not a huge country. Easy to cross it like you're doing a walk with your dog. Not to mention that is cold... But yay lets go and take a walk to the border lol

matgessel 5y ago

https://old.reddit.com/r/IWantOut/ https://old.reddit.com/r/IWantOut/

makeitdouble 5y ago

More than being Russian, the real issue would be to be moving country amidst the pandemic. Although the every day restrictions have been lowered in many countries, they won't be quick to allow for immigration again.

maniflames 5y ago

Definitely, just not right now. As far as I know most western countries have stopped taking in Russian citizens.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

jeffrallen 5y ago

It would be easier to fix your own government. General strike. They can arrest protesters, but they cannot arrest the entire working population.

nikanj 5y ago
"They" are also Russians. The key here would be convincing members of the police / army that they should work for the people, not Putin.
- select-all 5y ago
  Exactly, and not just the police. Some 20-30% of the population are actively supporting the current regime and will stand for it. Even if all state propaganda magically disappears and gets instantly replaced by the West propaganda, it'll take months and months for them to change their stance. People hate being wrong, and even more they hate admitting being wrong. It is a civil war kind of situation we're talking about.
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  That's the real issue right now, the people can do all kinds of civil disobedience, but as long as the police just rounds them up and arrests them by the thousands it won't change anything. I wonder what it'll take. Given that currently the Russian economy is getting decimated, I wonder if it'll take a few weeks or months of not getting paid. But that might just make them more ruthless and make them start extorting people for money, since they still hold power.
  - rurp 5y ago
    In previous eras pay was highly correlated with the ability to project force, since keeping those parties happy was what kept a ruler in power. Given that Putin rules like a petty feudal lord I imagine a similar principle holds here. If police stop getting paid, while having to battle thousands of protesters each day, I expect their loyalty to change very quickly.

anonymousDan 5y ago

My brother was on the verge of traveling to Russia from Latvia recently as a tourist. Apparently you can get a bus from Riga to St Petersburg that takes a few hours. I presume you could take one in the other direction to get around the lack of flights etc, but I have no idea about visas etc.

jacquesm 5y ago
You can get to the border, but it will be hard to impossible to cross it legally right now.
- anonymousDan 5y ago
  Are you living in Russia by any chance? What is the situation there like for westerners at the moment if so (e.g. in St Petersburg)? My brother still wants to go as he has been planning it for ages (he is learning Russian). I am quite concerned for his safety for obvious reasons but he is too stubborn to listen.
  - throwaway6547f 5y ago
    I’m living in Russia. If no one from outside will use nukes, then he will be fine. Everything operates normal, people doing everyday work and relax at the evening. You won’t see much difference from any EU capital in Moscow and St. Petersburg.

9214 5y ago

In 2022: zero, unless you have relatives/friends from abroad who are willing to help. I'm mid-20s below-average Russian born and raised in a city with population of 19k (and declining), Ural region. Average salary here is around 200-300 USD, 400 if you are lucky. I emmigrated in 2019 to work with an international startup in Montenegro: and ended up being ostracized and harassed by my manager from another country (won't point fingers to avoid unnecesary nationalism) on a cultural/ethnical basis; was forced to leave after a year and a half. After that, in 2021, I was offered to come to US by a fellow colleague with Ukranian roots: worker visas were denied to Russian citizens at that point, and most of the embassies were either closed or worked in a limited capacity (also due to pandemic). My last attempt (again in 2021) was to apply for PhD in EPHE institute of France (I have an MS degree in a programme related to medical tech, computer vision, and brain-computer interfaces): I got nothing in response. Since then I have been holed up in my hometown. Another friend of mine proposed some time ago to come to Vietnam: but with the entire world openly opposed to my nation, I doubt that will ever happen.

modernpink 5y ago
The Russophobia that has been pouring out is lamentable. And people don't realise this will only push the Russian people further towards Putin to re-establish their pride. And the sanctions are making this even worse. This mirrors Germany's treatment with the Treaty of Versailles leading up to WWII.
- ceilingcorner 5y ago
  It is really distressing, not only because it’s ethically wrong to blame groups of people for individual actions, but also because it’s pragmatically against the interests of the West. We gain nothing by escalating this.
  - Cthulhu_ 5y ago
    "We" did not escalate this; Russia did by annexing Crimea in 2014 and invading Ukraine. They could have chosen not to do so and instead focus on building up good international relationships. What did they think they had to gain from annexing neighbouring territory? More control over the Black Sea I guess, but why do they want that control in the first place? Russia can de-escalate by withdrawing. The only way for 'the west' to de-escalate at this point is to tell Ukraine to just roll over and get annexed. Is that preferable? And once Russia controls Ukraine, then what? Everybody's happy, and they'll just leave it at that? What is Putin's goals after Ukraine? I'll admit I'm not educated in international politics, I've just pivoted from an armchair virologist to an armchair politician / military expert on the internets.

niek_pas 5y ago

Just to add to what has already been said about money, visas, etc.: you’d also be facing the choice of leaving your family and friends behind.

TheRealNGenius 5y ago

Hey there, I know there are a lot of negative responses to this inquiry in the comments. I'm no expert, but I do genuinely believe that if there is a will, there is a way. I have several elder family members who chose to flee their country and become refugees in the 80's. Eventually, they found their way to the west. For anyone considering starting over elsewhere in another country, do your research, know the risks, and consider the consequences if you truly believe this is what you want.

eps 5y ago

An exhaustive list of visa options for IT/startup people - https://habr.com/ru/post/653587 https://habr.com/ru/post/653587 (from few days ago, in Russian)

sirolf1 5y ago

I'm trying to help a friend to get out of Russia. Someone knows where you can find information about the current options to leave the country>?