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That's rather hyperbolic. Article 4 has been invoked six times since 2003 (including in response to the Crimean invasion.) None of those cases triggered World W
by bremac 5y ago
That's rather hyperbolic. Article 4 has been invoked six times since 2003 (including in response to the Crimean invasion.) None of those cases triggered World War III.
- throwaway5752 5y agoThis is orders of magnitude different than those prior invocations.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- baby 5y agoWorld wars start from something small. Not saying this is it, but there are all the reasons to be concerned about today’s events.
- darebak 5y agoI don't think that any of the world wars started out of small things, can you clarify?
- bendhoefs 5y agoI'm reminded of a dead archduke and burning Reichstag...
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- selfhoster11 5y agoWorld War 1 started because a guy was assassinated, for one. The tension was there, but the assassination was what set everything into motion.
- oblio 5y agoThe assassination was a pretext. Austria-Hungary had been thinking about invading Serbia for decades. I dislike this historical view where the little guy is blamed.
- floodle 5y agoYou are agreeing with OP here. OP's point is that an act can seem small on the surface ("a guy got assassinated") but triggered a larger war because there are greater tensions and forces at play ("Austria-Hungary had been thinking about invading Serbia for decades").
- polotics 5y agoMany historical analysis of the start of WW1 highlight the slow communication and mobilization processes as the main cause of why European military leaders thought they had to move first, just in case the other side had already started and they hadn't heard... Another way to see it is that oligarchies of the time thought it expedient to have yet another 19th century war, and didn't factor in advances in technology: machine guns, artillery, chemical warfare... A bit like with drones and AI now: the outcome and shape of the Ukraine conflict wil inform us all of the specific bloody taste of 21st century resource wars. To anyone reading this in countries dependent on Ukrainian wheat imports (eg. North-Africa) Stock up on the pasta!
- gattilorenz 5y ago"a guy" to describe the future emperor of the Austria-Hungary is an understatement. It's like saying that the world was shocked because in 1963 a guy was shot. Yes, technically true, but...
- ricardobayes 5y ago
- jb1991 5y agohttps://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/27/opinion/7-things-gavrilo-princip-man-who-started-wwi/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/27/opinion/7-things-gavrilo-...
- sofixa 5y agoThe original "world war", the Seven Years War, started over some useless land in North America and then became global over Silesia, both of which are rather small things. WWI started over an assassination that barely happened, and WWII over a city ( Danzig, although it's fairly certain Hitler wouldn't have stopped there, like WWI would have happened anyways).
- hef19898 5y agoWW1 was a war everyone wanted (partially due to the dismantling of Bismarck's complex systems of alliances). Austria-Hungary wanted Serbia (and looked for an excuse), Prussia thought war against Russia was inevitable (no idea if that's true or not) and that such a war couldn't be won by Prussia once Russia started to modernize (kind of true, as Prussia utterly defeated Russia in WW1 and Germany was utterly defeated by Russia in WW2) and thus wanted a war against Russia now. Some French wanted revanche for the war 1870. Italy had some territorial interests against Austria-Hungary. And everyone came from a world were those wars were normal (as bad as the Napoleonic wars were, they were mostly fought between armies and less severe on civilians, and decided by decisive battles with treaties after those). Everyone thought they could easily win, and fast. The trope "it's over by Christmas" comes from that period. WW2 so, was different. That was, from the beginning, Hitler's idea. He wanted it, he took what he could without a war, and then with a war. All with the goal of defeating Russia and exterminate the Jews (and all other undesirables). Everything else was just excuses, and thinly vailed ones at that.
- atoav 5y agoSo hasn't any crown prince murder since the first world war.
- kragen 5y agoIt's not hyperbole. There were plenty of political assassinations in the years before 01914 that didn't trigger World War I, too. Hopefully this is another time Article 4 is invoked without triggering World War III. But it may not be.
- ricardobayes 5y agoI agree, Article 4 is nothing more than a consultation request. The real big thing is Article 5, which means if any ally is attacked, the others will help. Blinken confirmed US commitment to this is "ironclad".
- kragen 5y agoI don't know a lot about these issues, but here's the way I see it. Ukraine isn't part of NATO, and Estonia hasn't been attacked, so Article 5 can't be invoked. Therefore, this is roughly the maximally aggressive possible response from Estonia. Of course the US Secretary of State says US commitment to Article 5 is "ironclad"; if he doesn't say that, NATO basically stops existing, and with it much of the US's influence in the world. Therefore the fact that he says this conveys almost zero information.
- sgjohnson 5y agoI'll believe the US "ironclad" commitment to Article 5 when they build an air base and a naval base in the Baltics. Because if Putin was to attack the Baltics tomorrow, they would cease to exist before any NATO ally would manage to get their warships past the Kaliningrad Oblast in the Baltic Sea.