5 ms·

I would be really tempted, but there are still a couple things putting me off: * Intel only * Windows only ... sorry boy and mum are arguing over homework --

by m6w6 5y ago

I would be really tempted, but there are still a couple things putting me off: * Intel only * Windows only ... sorry boy and mum are arguing over homework -- gotta run!

byefruit 5y ago
Intel only at the moment is correct but Windows only? TFA says "no OS" as an option, so you're free to install what you like.
- evronm 5y ago
  Indeed. Happily using Void Linux on mine. Took some doing (kernel downgrade being the most annoying), but it works great now.
- bla3 5y ago
  It's possible to install Linux, but it requires a bunch of fiddling. And even then power management tends to not work great. I'd love if Linux has as officially supported and just worked.
  - humanwhosits 5y ago
    A pre-install option for linux would increase user trust that it'll "just work"
    - terinjokes 5y ago
      As someone with a Dell XPS 9310 for work where Linux is a pre-install option, I can tell you it definitely doesn't mean it "just works". The Framework I got for personal use, on the other hand, worked OOTB with a Linux USB installer.
      - kaladin-jasnah 5y ago
        I have an XPS 13 (forget the model number but I think it had an 8th-generation Intel CPU) that came with Linux and it definitely wasn't "just works" when I bought it (sleep/wake was kind-of broken and such) but a month or so later, it did magically start working (and nothing else was really broken).
        terinjokes 5y ago
        The 9310 is an 11th generation Intel CPU, that I've had for over a year now. While it certainly was even more broken when I first got it, after the first quarter improvements seem to have stopped happening. Things like WiFi, Bluetooth, sleep, power management, and video output are still fairly flaky. People elsewhere in this thread complain about the battery in sleep for the Framework, and I confirm the same with mine, but losing a few percent a night is nothing compare to the Dell, which goes from 100 to 0 overnight.
    - imilk 5y ago
      People have been waiting for a Linux that "just works" for decades. And they'll probably still be waiting for the next 20 years. But that's not really the point of using Linux.
      - trelane 5y ago
        They have it now. The trick is to stop buying Windows hardware. Looks like this is just more of that rather than Linux (or just not broken) hardware.
        imilk 5y ago
        I have DIY Framework that came without an operating system. Installed Pop_OS on it from a flash drive and in 10 minutes all the necessary tweaks were made. So if 10 minutes of installing an OS and tweaking a few settings stops someone from spending years with a computer, I'm a bit confused by their attitude.
      - hutzlibu 5y ago
        "But that's not really the point of using Linux." That philosophy is probably part of the reason, why linux on the desktop stays in its small niche inside tech circles. Most people, myself included, indeed want a system that "just works" - to get the actual work done. And then if the basics work, I can enjoy the full freedom to tweak it to my needs in infinity. But only very few people enjoy "freedom to tinker", when it means "mandatory tinkering" to get basic functionality. My best linux times were indeed, when stuff just worked. I was really surprised the first time I used a live Linux cd and everything "just worked". No manual driver installing, like I had known from windows. It booted up and everything was just there. It was different, but it worked. And then I discovered the endless possibilities and freedom to change ANYTHING. But fast forward to today: my quite modern laptop still has standby/resume issues on linux, making it hard to enjoy it at times. And I don't feel like compiling the kernel myself to maybe see a slight improvement.
        freedomben 5y ago
        I'm pretty competent/qualified to tinker with my Linux, but I still much prefer a "just works" approach too. I think most in the community do. I don't want a "Just works because everything is hyper-locked down" but that's a much different thing IMHO. Fortunately most distros have gotten to where we are. Fedora works amazingly well OOTB on so much hardware, and I've heard great things about Pop and other popular distros.
  - imilk 5y ago
    I bought a DIY Framework and installed Pop_OS, everything was working well after 5 minutes of "fiddling". So if that's a reason for you to not buy a computer, I'd suggest that Linux may not be for you.
mohanmcgeek 5y ago
There's a Linux configuration https://frame.work/blog/linux-on-the-framework-laptop https://frame.work/blog/linux-on-the-framework-laptop
- humanwhosits 5y ago
  Sure, but when you look at the ordering page, it doesn't mention linux as an OS option, just Windows or no OS
  - isaac21259 5y ago
    Do you think a significant amount of people who want to run Linux will want it preinstalled for them?
    - rmbyrro 5y ago
      I agree they should offer a Linux option from factory, but you have a fair point.
    - pessimizer 5y ago
      I don't, and I suspect that people who would want Linux preinstalled don't have much experience in it, and being lost would hate it, badmouth it, and badmouth the company for making it an option. Installing Linux is quick and of trivial difficulty, and if you're afraid to do it you should probably work on that fear at a different time than when you're also breaking in a new computer. I would say that installing Linux is like being able to tune your guitar or a chef being able to sharpen their knives, but it's an order of magnitude easier than either of those things. Agree with sibling that maintaining preinstalled Linux is a good sign that all the guts and peripherals are compatible, although that might be a perverse incentive to use a bleeding edge kernel/distro to accommodate flashy hardware. If anything, they should install a boring LTS/Debian Stable, completely stock other than a custom wallpaper.
    - AndroidKitKat 5y ago
      It would at least offer the option to a curious consumer who wouldn't otherwise feel comfortable installing it themselves.
rozab 5y ago
At first this comment made me angry (it's Linux, the whole point is user choice, what would be the benefit in preinstalling!) - but I suppose System76 have really showed how much better things can be with Pop!_OS. I would expect the vast majority of users will be using Linux though, so calling it Windows only seems a little misleading. There is an option to get no OS and avoid the Windows tax.
- trelane 5y ago
  I'd rather pay to add Linux support rather than skip the windows tax.
hk1337 5y ago
I’m with you in the “Intel Only” but not the “Windows only”. Windows is the only one you have to pay for, so it’s the only one with an option. If you don’t want Windows, then choose the “bring your own” option and download your Linux distribution.

by m6w6 5y ago

I would be really tempted, but there are still a couple things putting me off: * Intel only * Windows only ... sorry boy and mum are arguing over homework -- gotta run!

byefruit 5y ago

Intel only at the moment is correct but Windows only? TFA says "no OS" as an option, so you're free to install what you like.

evronm 5y ago
Indeed. Happily using Void Linux on mine. Took some doing (kernel downgrade being the most annoying), but it works great now.
bla3 5y ago
It's possible to install Linux, but it requires a bunch of fiddling. And even then power management tends to not work great. I'd love if Linux has as officially supported and just worked.
- humanwhosits 5y ago
  A pre-install option for linux would increase user trust that it'll "just work"
  - terinjokes 5y ago
    As someone with a Dell XPS 9310 for work where Linux is a pre-install option, I can tell you it definitely doesn't mean it "just works". The Framework I got for personal use, on the other hand, worked OOTB with a Linux USB installer.
    - kaladin-jasnah 5y ago
      I have an XPS 13 (forget the model number but I think it had an 8th-generation Intel CPU) that came with Linux and it definitely wasn't "just works" when I bought it (sleep/wake was kind-of broken and such) but a month or so later, it did magically start working (and nothing else was really broken).
      - terinjokes 5y ago
        The 9310 is an 11th generation Intel CPU, that I've had for over a year now. While it certainly was even more broken when I first got it, after the first quarter improvements seem to have stopped happening. Things like WiFi, Bluetooth, sleep, power management, and video output are still fairly flaky. People elsewhere in this thread complain about the battery in sleep for the Framework, and I confirm the same with mine, but losing a few percent a night is nothing compare to the Dell, which goes from 100 to 0 overnight.
  - imilk 5y ago
    People have been waiting for a Linux that "just works" for decades. And they'll probably still be waiting for the next 20 years. But that's not really the point of using Linux.
    - trelane 5y ago
      They have it now. The trick is to stop buying Windows hardware. Looks like this is just more of that rather than Linux (or just not broken) hardware.
      - imilk 5y ago
        I have DIY Framework that came without an operating system. Installed Pop_OS on it from a flash drive and in 10 minutes all the necessary tweaks were made. So if 10 minutes of installing an OS and tweaking a few settings stops someone from spending years with a computer, I'm a bit confused by their attitude.
    - hutzlibu 5y ago
      "But that's not really the point of using Linux." That philosophy is probably part of the reason, why linux on the desktop stays in its small niche inside tech circles. Most people, myself included, indeed want a system that "just works" - to get the actual work done. And then if the basics work, I can enjoy the full freedom to tweak it to my needs in infinity. But only very few people enjoy "freedom to tinker", when it means "mandatory tinkering" to get basic functionality. My best linux times were indeed, when stuff just worked. I was really surprised the first time I used a live Linux cd and everything "just worked". No manual driver installing, like I had known from windows. It booted up and everything was just there. It was different, but it worked. And then I discovered the endless possibilities and freedom to change ANYTHING. But fast forward to today: my quite modern laptop still has standby/resume issues on linux, making it hard to enjoy it at times. And I don't feel like compiling the kernel myself to maybe see a slight improvement.
      - freedomben 5y ago
        I'm pretty competent/qualified to tinker with my Linux, but I still much prefer a "just works" approach too. I think most in the community do. I don't want a "Just works because everything is hyper-locked down" but that's a much different thing IMHO. Fortunately most distros have gotten to where we are. Fedora works amazingly well OOTB on so much hardware, and I've heard great things about Pop and other popular distros.
- imilk 5y ago
  I bought a DIY Framework and installed Pop_OS, everything was working well after 5 minutes of "fiddling". So if that's a reason for you to not buy a computer, I'd suggest that Linux may not be for you.

mohanmcgeek 5y ago

There's a Linux configuration https://frame.work/blog/linux-on-the-framework-laptop https://frame.work/blog/linux-on-the-framework-laptop

humanwhosits 5y ago
Sure, but when you look at the ordering page, it doesn't mention linux as an OS option, just Windows or no OS
- isaac21259 5y ago
  Do you think a significant amount of people who want to run Linux will want it preinstalled for them?
  - rmbyrro 5y ago
    I agree they should offer a Linux option from factory, but you have a fair point.
  - pessimizer 5y ago
    I don't, and I suspect that people who would want Linux preinstalled don't have much experience in it, and being lost would hate it, badmouth it, and badmouth the company for making it an option. Installing Linux is quick and of trivial difficulty, and if you're afraid to do it you should probably work on that fear at a different time than when you're also breaking in a new computer. I would say that installing Linux is like being able to tune your guitar or a chef being able to sharpen their knives, but it's an order of magnitude easier than either of those things. Agree with sibling that maintaining preinstalled Linux is a good sign that all the guts and peripherals are compatible, although that might be a perverse incentive to use a bleeding edge kernel/distro to accommodate flashy hardware. If anything, they should install a boring LTS/Debian Stable, completely stock other than a custom wallpaper.
  - AndroidKitKat 5y ago
    It would at least offer the option to a curious consumer who wouldn't otherwise feel comfortable installing it themselves.

rozab 5y ago

At first this comment made me angry (it's Linux, the whole point is user choice, what would be the benefit in preinstalling!) - but I suppose System76 have really showed how much better things can be with Pop!_OS. I would expect the vast majority of users will be using Linux though, so calling it Windows only seems a little misleading. There is an option to get no OS and avoid the Windows tax.

trelane 5y ago
I'd rather pay to add Linux support rather than skip the windows tax.

hk1337 5y ago

I’m with you in the “Intel Only” but not the “Windows only”. Windows is the only one you have to pay for, so it’s the only one with an option. If you don’t want Windows, then choose the “bring your own” option and download your Linux distribution.