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I have a hard time understanding why NATO keeps expanding despite the fact that the threat it was created to guard against collapsed 30+ years ago. I find the

I have a hard time understanding why NATO keeps expanding despite the fact that the threat it was created to guard against collapsed 30+ years ago. I find the Russian demand that NATO not expand to Ukraine fairly reasonable given the history they have with NATO. I look at this as similar to the US declaration that missiles in Cuba were not acceptable back in the 1960's.

AnimalMuppet 5y ago
Because countries keep asking to be included in NATO. And why do they do that? Because they keep feeling threatened by Russia. And why do they feel threatened? Because Russia keeps doing things like invading Georgia and Ukraine. Countries flee to NATO for protection, if they can.
- hackerbeat 5y ago
  And how many countries has the US invaded already?
- xg15 5y ago
  One quote from - I believe - Lawrow was how the US would react if Cuba or Venezuela were asking to be accepted into that anti-NATO Russia has apparently been building. Two wrongs don't make a right, but I think it's a valid question to ask if the argument is purely about the freedom of countries to make their own decisions.
  - ephbit 5y ago
    John Mearsheimer spoke about this in this IMO quite entertaining talk in Jan 2019 here: The Great Delusion: Liberal Dreams and International Realities | SOAS University of London Mearsheimer's "NATO example" concerning Russia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni9rncx8ceA&t=2807 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni9rncx8ceA&t=2807 Earlier he also lists failed attempts to bring liberal democracy to other countries that ended in disaster and then states: > " .. the Americans have foolishly driven the Russians into the arms of the Chinese .." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni9rncx8ceA&t=2304 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni9rncx8ceA&t=2304
  - nitwit005 5y ago
    It sounds like they did threaten to move troops to both places you listed, but it didn't get much of a reaction: https://thehill.com/policy/defense/589595-russia-suggests-military-deployments-to-cuba-venezuela-an-option https://thehill.com/policy/defense/589595-russia-suggests-mi... They did have an intelligence base in Cuba until 2002, and I don't believe anyone particularly cared.
vanusa 5y ago
I find the Russian demand that NATO not expand to Ukraine fairly reasonable given the history they have with NATO. Do you find the act of holding a knife against the throats of 40m people to persuade compliance with this demand to be also ... "fairly reasonable"?

AnimalMuppet 5y ago

Because countries keep asking to be included in NATO. And why do they do that? Because they keep feeling threatened by Russia. And why do they feel threatened? Because Russia keeps doing things like invading Georgia and Ukraine. Countries flee to NATO for protection, if they can.

hackerbeat 5y ago
And how many countries has the US invaded already?
xg15 5y ago
One quote from - I believe - Lawrow was how the US would react if Cuba or Venezuela were asking to be accepted into that anti-NATO Russia has apparently been building. Two wrongs don't make a right, but I think it's a valid question to ask if the argument is purely about the freedom of countries to make their own decisions.
- ephbit 5y ago
  John Mearsheimer spoke about this in this IMO quite entertaining talk in Jan 2019 here: The Great Delusion: Liberal Dreams and International Realities | SOAS University of London Mearsheimer's "NATO example" concerning Russia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni9rncx8ceA&t=2807 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni9rncx8ceA&t=2807 Earlier he also lists failed attempts to bring liberal democracy to other countries that ended in disaster and then states: > " .. the Americans have foolishly driven the Russians into the arms of the Chinese .." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni9rncx8ceA&t=2304 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni9rncx8ceA&t=2304
- nitwit005 5y ago
  It sounds like they did threaten to move troops to both places you listed, but it didn't get much of a reaction: https://thehill.com/policy/defense/589595-russia-suggests-military-deployments-to-cuba-venezuela-an-option https://thehill.com/policy/defense/589595-russia-suggests-mi... They did have an intelligence base in Cuba until 2002, and I don't believe anyone particularly cared.

vanusa 5y ago

I find the Russian demand that NATO not expand to Ukraine fairly reasonable given the history they have with NATO. Do you find the act of holding a knife against the throats of 40m people to persuade compliance with this demand to be also ... "fairly reasonable"?