7 ms·

Corrected identification of object about to hit the moon

146 points by mpitt 5y ago

kortilla 5y ago
It’s quite surprising how little verification went into the original claim that it was a falcon 9 before the outpouring of standard anti-Elon driven outrage.
- itsoktocry 5y ago
  >standard anti-Elon driven outrage. Elon Musk might be the most lionized individual on planet earth. It's hilarious people think the love/hate for him is unbalanced, or that he's "picked on".
  - XorNot 5y ago
    There's plenty to hate on Elon for but it's possibly clear that a lot of people are looking for a news article to bandwagon onto rather then having a specific issue or issues they care about. There were definitely a bunch of people trying to cast around for some reason a booster hitting the moon was just clear disaster (it wasn't and would never be).
    - juanani 5y ago
  - FeepingCreature 5y ago
    This always depends on where you look.
- iqanq 5y ago
  What is surprising is that in 2022 people believe everything that they read.
  - cheschire 5y ago
    It’s surprising, as GP said, how little verification was made by news outlets. Chastising people for believing “everything” simply because they believed this is a different matter. Especially when otherwise reputable sources such as ESA post the information. https://www.esa.int/Safety_Security/Space_Debris/Incoming!_Debris_enroute_to_the_Moon https://www.esa.int/Safety_Security/Space_Debris/Incoming!_D...
    - gostsamo 5y ago
      This is not something reported by ESA astronomers but a PR piece about recent news, relevant history, and pointing how ESA does it. The article explicitly links to its source about the attribution.
    - iqanq 5y ago
      The media and organisations like the ESA have their biases and agendas.
      - gameswithgo 5y ago
        yes the well known moon trash agenda of the far … uhhh
        iqanq 5y ago
        The fact that they have published this without even verifying it is the best proof that they have a bias or even an agenda, yes.
  - cbozeman 5y ago
    I don't know why people are downvoting you for what has become an objectively true position to hold. In just the past 10 years, journalism has taken such a nose dive that I'm legitimately nonplussed when people take everything they read in The New York Times Company's paper, or Jeff Bezos' The Washington Post as gospel fact. Let's not even start with Fox News, CNN, and MSNBC. Look back just to 2014 when Rolling Stone magazine published the completely unverified, and eventually debunked story, "A Rape on Campus". It was just a load of made-up bullshit. And then other outlets started to seize on the controversy and posted their own stories. The entire story was proven false, and it also resulted in a large settlement for the accused parties involved. People have lied since the dawn of humanity whenever it suits their needs; there's no reason to think we've significantly changed now.
- bruce343434 5y ago
  There's a relevant Dutch saying here, "high trees catch a lot of wind"
  - taneq 5y ago
    If you're not making anyone mad, you're probably not doing anything important.
    - dr_dshiv 5y ago
      That is not a Dutch saying. In the Netherlands, there are literally rap songs extolling the virtues of Normal.
      - nitrogen 5y ago
        Honestly, it would probably help if American music and entertainment had more of a "here's how we overcome together" theme and less "sing about my bling and you don't get a thing."
      - pshc 5y ago
        Interesting, I would love to hear more and/or read the lyrics!
        ricardobeat 5y ago
        Dutch culture favors blending in vs standing out. Another saying - japanese I think, that comes to mind, is "the nail that sticks out gets the hammer". I was sure there was a softer dutch version about "the tallest flower gets the snip" or something but I can't find a reference :) I feel that this is not the same spirit as 'high trees catch a lot of wind' though, that one in particular is about how famous/important people will receive a lot of criticism, and does not refer to the 'be normal' attitude.
        manicdee 5y ago
        Tall poppy syndrome.
- h2odragon 5y ago
  "Layers and layers of fact checkers"
- petee 5y ago
  "In a sense, this remains "circumstantial" evidence. But I would regard it as fairly convincing evidence." "It's unclear when the Chang'e 5-T1 booster would have gone by the moon," Sure sounds definitive now... /s
  - mannykannot 5y ago
    Given what follows the second quote, it appears to be a simple typo: "It was unclear..." would better fit. Also given what follows, the author seems justified in writing that first quote, which follows the presentation of the reasoning suggesting that it is the Chang'e 5-T1 mission's booster.
    - petee 5y ago
      edited: I should have included more context to the second quote. My point being, the one who misidentified it on the first first round due to circumstantial evidence, still is not sure and is basing this new claim on also circumstantial evidence. After that last quote, they go on to say, "If we assume", which is just a sign they are searching for a fit.
      - mannykannot 5y ago
        It is better circumstantial evidence, and, for reasons given in the article, it is unlikely that anything definitive will be found, at least unless the debris are examined in situ. To say you should have included more context is something of an understatement. By removing the information between the two quotes and swapping them around, you removed all the context needed to come to a reasonable conclusion.
        petee 5y ago
        In retrospect I should have been more careful the order, as well as context, although I expect those commenting to have read the article too, and the full quote would have be far too long to be included, imho. (edit)
- cmeacham98 5y ago
  I didn't participate in any outrage (actually, I'm behind here, this post was the first I'd heard of this story), but this seems like a particularly uncharitable take. The story came from an otherwise-reputable source that made a mistake. Your average person (including even most space enthusiasts) doesn't have the knowledge and expertise to check it themselves other than seeing what other astronomers have to say, and the commentary I could find prior to the discovery of the mistake was in agreement.
  - numpad0 5y ago
    Elon Musk fanboys always start a fight with "I don't understand why [entity] is so dismissive of [Elon Musk's project]" line, which fixate the view and prime the flamewar. Don't feed them.
  - radu_floricica 5y ago
    Parent may or may not be trying to assign blame, but they do make a very salient observation: there is, as a rule, very little verification from initial reporting to strong global reaction. And that's a rule, not something having to do with this particular instance.
  - BiteCode_dev 5y ago
    No, but you can wait a few days and reserve judgement until it's confirmed by several sources. It's not like it something you need or could act on. Today, the news arrive fast, and the reaction to the news is instant. On the other hand, after several years of covid crisis, my opinion on the whole thing is very much in flux, and when I discuss it with people, I don't give definitive statements, nor raise an outrage. So yes, the reaction here seems it could be a problem... if confirmed :)
    - krisoft 5y ago
      > Today, the news arrive fast, and the reaction to the news is instant. The reaction? Some people yapped in the general direction of Elon and SpaceX. They are grownups, they can take it. Even with the original information it is and was a a big nothing-burger. Even if it were true nothing would, should or did come to adversely affect Elon or SpaceX out of it. Maybe just don't worry about it?
- tzs 5y ago
  Where was this outrage?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
irthomasthomas 5y ago
drdd 5y ago
Nice advertisement spacex
Proven 5y ago
dmix 5y ago
There is a photo/video of the booster by an amateur with a a nice telescope system of the alleged “Falcon 9” that went viral https://twitter.com/virtualtelescop/status/1490782845144637440?s=21 https://twitter.com/virtualtelescop/status/14907828451446374... https://www.virtualtelescope.eu/2022/02/09/spacex-falcon-9-upper-stage-going-to-hit-the-moon-a-memorable-coverage-of-its-last-fly-by-8-feb-2022/ https://www.virtualtelescope.eu/2022/02/09/spacex-falcon-9-u...
petee 5y ago
edit: has been fixed, thanks hn This title is incorrect and should be fixed. The actual title is "Corrected identification of object about to hit the moon" since the object has not been positively identified by anybody.
- krono 5y ago
  How can a non-existant identification be corrected?
  - petee 5y ago
    The title here says "Object about to hit moon is from Chang'e 5, not SpaceX", the article says it is still not confirmed, and is just a best-guess. The actual article title is, "Corrected identification of object about to hit the moon" - HN often fixes titles that have been paraphrased or inferred, like here.
    - krono 5y ago
      Ah gotcha!
      - petee 5y ago
        Pardon my hard italics, I thought you were just being sassy :)
PickledHotdog 5y ago
I dunno man, if Elon is willing to pay someone a small stack of cash to take down their Twitter account tracking his private jet, surely he'd be willing to pay astronomers to change their story /s
temp0826 5y ago
DSCOVR is a pretty cool project. It always stays on the sunlit side of the earth and has a decent camera (called EPIC) viewing the full disc. You can view it here[0]. [0] https://epic.gsfc.nasa.gov/ https://epic.gsfc.nasa.gov/
- somat 5y ago
  Wow that is nice. Does anyone know what that yellow spot in the middle of the image is? https://epic.gsfc.nasa.gov/archive/natural/2022/02/12/png/epic_1b_20220212004555.png https://epic.gsfc.nasa.gov/archive/natural/2022/02/12/png/ep... I have two thoughts. 1. it would be near the tonga volcano 2. it is suspiciously right in the middle of the image. Sun glare due to the orbit matching the sun? edit: added link to image in question as I realized the earth actually spins.
  - fguerraz 5y ago
    Definitely sun glare, this is a picture taken from a Sun-synchronous orbit.
theknocker 5y ago
fsiefken 5y ago
O wow, one of my first expensive pieces of software I bought when I was young. Guide for DOS by ProjectPluto. I wanted to find out if the so called predicted Galactic Center conjunction with the winter solstice really took place in 2012 (as popularized by John Major Jenkins in Maya Cosmogenesis 2021). It turned out it took place - according to the algorithms and ephemerids of Guide - in 1998 or 1999, depending on the arc second definition you use. Great software.

146 points by mpitt 5y ago

It’s quite surprising how little verification went into the original claim that it was a falcon 9 before the outpouring of standard anti-Elon driven outrage.

itsoktocry 5y ago
>standard anti-Elon driven outrage. Elon Musk might be the most lionized individual on planet earth. It's hilarious people think the love/hate for him is unbalanced, or that he's "picked on".
- XorNot 5y ago
  There's plenty to hate on Elon for but it's possibly clear that a lot of people are looking for a news article to bandwagon onto rather then having a specific issue or issues they care about. There were definitely a bunch of people trying to cast around for some reason a booster hitting the moon was just clear disaster (it wasn't and would never be).
  - juanani 5y ago
- FeepingCreature 5y ago
  This always depends on where you look.
iqanq 5y ago
What is surprising is that in 2022 people believe everything that they read.
- cheschire 5y ago
  It’s surprising, as GP said, how little verification was made by news outlets. Chastising people for believing “everything” simply because they believed this is a different matter. Especially when otherwise reputable sources such as ESA post the information. https://www.esa.int/Safety_Security/Space_Debris/Incoming!_Debris_enroute_to_the_Moon https://www.esa.int/Safety_Security/Space_Debris/Incoming!_D...
  - gostsamo 5y ago
    This is not something reported by ESA astronomers but a PR piece about recent news, relevant history, and pointing how ESA does it. The article explicitly links to its source about the attribution.
  - iqanq 5y ago
    The media and organisations like the ESA have their biases and agendas.
    - gameswithgo 5y ago
      yes the well known moon trash agenda of the far … uhhh
      - iqanq 5y ago
        The fact that they have published this without even verifying it is the best proof that they have a bias or even an agenda, yes.
- cbozeman 5y ago
  I don't know why people are downvoting you for what has become an objectively true position to hold. In just the past 10 years, journalism has taken such a nose dive that I'm legitimately nonplussed when people take everything they read in The New York Times Company's paper, or Jeff Bezos' The Washington Post as gospel fact. Let's not even start with Fox News, CNN, and MSNBC. Look back just to 2014 when Rolling Stone magazine published the completely unverified, and eventually debunked story, "A Rape on Campus". It was just a load of made-up bullshit. And then other outlets started to seize on the controversy and posted their own stories. The entire story was proven false, and it also resulted in a large settlement for the accused parties involved. People have lied since the dawn of humanity whenever it suits their needs; there's no reason to think we've significantly changed now.
bruce343434 5y ago
There's a relevant Dutch saying here, "high trees catch a lot of wind"
- taneq 5y ago
  If you're not making anyone mad, you're probably not doing anything important.
  - dr_dshiv 5y ago
    That is not a Dutch saying. In the Netherlands, there are literally rap songs extolling the virtues of Normal.
    - nitrogen 5y ago
      Honestly, it would probably help if American music and entertainment had more of a "here's how we overcome together" theme and less "sing about my bling and you don't get a thing."
    - pshc 5y ago
      Interesting, I would love to hear more and/or read the lyrics!
      - ricardobeat 5y ago
        Dutch culture favors blending in vs standing out. Another saying - japanese I think, that comes to mind, is "the nail that sticks out gets the hammer". I was sure there was a softer dutch version about "the tallest flower gets the snip" or something but I can't find a reference :) I feel that this is not the same spirit as 'high trees catch a lot of wind' though, that one in particular is about how famous/important people will receive a lot of criticism, and does not refer to the 'be normal' attitude.
        manicdee 5y ago
        Tall poppy syndrome.
h2odragon 5y ago
"Layers and layers of fact checkers"
petee 5y ago
"In a sense, this remains "circumstantial" evidence. But I would regard it as fairly convincing evidence." "It's unclear when the Chang'e 5-T1 booster would have gone by the moon," Sure sounds definitive now... /s
- mannykannot 5y ago
  Given what follows the second quote, it appears to be a simple typo: "It was unclear..." would better fit. Also given what follows, the author seems justified in writing that first quote, which follows the presentation of the reasoning suggesting that it is the Chang'e 5-T1 mission's booster.
  - petee 5y ago
    edited: I should have included more context to the second quote. My point being, the one who misidentified it on the first first round due to circumstantial evidence, still is not sure and is basing this new claim on also circumstantial evidence. After that last quote, they go on to say, "If we assume", which is just a sign they are searching for a fit.
    - mannykannot 5y ago
      It is better circumstantial evidence, and, for reasons given in the article, it is unlikely that anything definitive will be found, at least unless the debris are examined in situ. To say you should have included more context is something of an understatement. By removing the information between the two quotes and swapping them around, you removed all the context needed to come to a reasonable conclusion.
      - petee 5y ago
        In retrospect I should have been more careful the order, as well as context, although I expect those commenting to have read the article too, and the full quote would have be far too long to be included, imho. (edit)
cmeacham98 5y ago
I didn't participate in any outrage (actually, I'm behind here, this post was the first I'd heard of this story), but this seems like a particularly uncharitable take. The story came from an otherwise-reputable source that made a mistake. Your average person (including even most space enthusiasts) doesn't have the knowledge and expertise to check it themselves other than seeing what other astronomers have to say, and the commentary I could find prior to the discovery of the mistake was in agreement.
- numpad0 5y ago
  Elon Musk fanboys always start a fight with "I don't understand why [entity] is so dismissive of [Elon Musk's project]" line, which fixate the view and prime the flamewar. Don't feed them.
- radu_floricica 5y ago
  Parent may or may not be trying to assign blame, but they do make a very salient observation: there is, as a rule, very little verification from initial reporting to strong global reaction. And that's a rule, not something having to do with this particular instance.
- BiteCode_dev 5y ago
  No, but you can wait a few days and reserve judgement until it's confirmed by several sources. It's not like it something you need or could act on. Today, the news arrive fast, and the reaction to the news is instant. On the other hand, after several years of covid crisis, my opinion on the whole thing is very much in flux, and when I discuss it with people, I don't give definitive statements, nor raise an outrage. So yes, the reaction here seems it could be a problem... if confirmed :)
  - krisoft 5y ago
    > Today, the news arrive fast, and the reaction to the news is instant. The reaction? Some people yapped in the general direction of Elon and SpaceX. They are grownups, they can take it. Even with the original information it is and was a a big nothing-burger. Even if it were true nothing would, should or did come to adversely affect Elon or SpaceX out of it. Maybe just don't worry about it?
tzs 5y ago
Where was this outrage?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

irthomasthomas 5y ago

drdd 5y ago

Nice advertisement spacex

Proven 5y ago

dmix 5y ago

There is a photo/video of the booster by an amateur with a a nice telescope system of the alleged “Falcon 9” that went viral https://twitter.com/virtualtelescop/status/1490782845144637440?s=21 https://twitter.com/virtualtelescop/status/14907828451446374... https://www.virtualtelescope.eu/2022/02/09/spacex-falcon-9-upper-stage-going-to-hit-the-moon-a-memorable-coverage-of-its-last-fly-by-8-feb-2022/ https://www.virtualtelescope.eu/2022/02/09/spacex-falcon-9-u...

petee 5y ago

edit: has been fixed, thanks hn This title is incorrect and should be fixed. The actual title is "Corrected identification of object about to hit the moon" since the object has not been positively identified by anybody.

krono 5y ago
How can a non-existant identification be corrected?
- petee 5y ago
  The title here says "Object about to hit moon is from Chang'e 5, not SpaceX", the article says it is still not confirmed, and is just a best-guess. The actual article title is, "Corrected identification of object about to hit the moon" - HN often fixes titles that have been paraphrased or inferred, like here.
  - krono 5y ago
    Ah gotcha!
    - petee 5y ago
      Pardon my hard italics, I thought you were just being sassy :)

PickledHotdog 5y ago

I dunno man, if Elon is willing to pay someone a small stack of cash to take down their Twitter account tracking his private jet, surely he'd be willing to pay astronomers to change their story /s

temp0826 5y ago

DSCOVR is a pretty cool project. It always stays on the sunlit side of the earth and has a decent camera (called EPIC) viewing the full disc. You can view it here[0]. [0] https://epic.gsfc.nasa.gov/ https://epic.gsfc.nasa.gov/

somat 5y ago
Wow that is nice. Does anyone know what that yellow spot in the middle of the image is? https://epic.gsfc.nasa.gov/archive/natural/2022/02/12/png/epic_1b_20220212004555.png https://epic.gsfc.nasa.gov/archive/natural/2022/02/12/png/ep... I have two thoughts. 1. it would be near the tonga volcano 2. it is suspiciously right in the middle of the image. Sun glare due to the orbit matching the sun? edit: added link to image in question as I realized the earth actually spins.
- fguerraz 5y ago
  Definitely sun glare, this is a picture taken from a Sun-synchronous orbit.

theknocker 5y ago

fsiefken 5y ago

O wow, one of my first expensive pieces of software I bought when I was young. Guide for DOS by ProjectPluto. I wanted to find out if the so called predicted Galactic Center conjunction with the winter solstice really took place in 2012 (as popularized by John Major Jenkins in Maya Cosmogenesis 2021). It turned out it took place - according to the algorithms and ephemerids of Guide - in 1998 or 1999, depending on the arc second definition you use. Great software.