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The article is written in German, but with a Google Translate you can understand the just of it. Apparently Telegram added a new blocking system based on phone

The article is written in German, but with a Google Translate you can understand the just of it. Apparently Telegram added a new blocking system based on phone numbers, sorta a geo-blocking thing, and people with German phone numbers registered on their Telegram accounts aren't able to access those blocked channels. Also, unlike the previous block this one applies even to the users who are using the app downloaded directly from Telegram site and not the iOS/Google Play version. The blocking happens after German minister of interior had a meeting with Telegram directors a few days ago.

pessimizer 5y ago
Probably makes sense. I'm not super familiar with Telegram, but to know a channel is doing stuff that's against German law probably means that someone with access to the channel reported it to authorities. Germany is also one of those countries that blanket bans particular groups/parties in general, which the US didn't really do until after 9/11. Banning a group chat isn't much different.
- skrause 5y ago
  > Germany is also one of those countries that blanket bans particular groups/parties in general You make it sound like Germany is constantly banning political parties. There have been exactly two bans of political parties in the post-war history of Germany: A nazi party in 1952 and a communist party in 1956. Also don't forget who occupied Germany in this decade and made a lot of its decisions.
  - pessimizer 5y ago
    But there are many banned named groups. Germany is not unique in this. That's a thing foreign to the US that Americans may not understand, which is why I mentioned it. I can start a group called the "Destroy The Government Now Neo-Nazis" in the US with no fear that it will ever be banned.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > I can start a group called the "Destroy The Government Now Neo-Nazis" in the US with no fear that it will ever be banned. Gang injunctions (sufficiently, but not exclusively) prove that this is not true.
      - hedora 5y ago
        Neo-Nazis are good white Christian folks. Domestic terrorism and gang laws don't apply to them. (I wish I was joking.)
        dragonwriter 5y ago
        “The US is structurally sympathetic to Neo-Nazis” is a different, and more difficult to refute, argument than “the US doesn't ban groups”.
    - cft 5y ago
      A group like that won't stay up a day on a FAANG platform
- mschuster91 5y ago
  > Probably makes sense. I'm not super familiar with Telegram, but to know a channel is doing stuff that's against German law probably means that someone with access to the channel reported it to authorities. Avocadolf's channels are public, you could access them on the Telegram web UI even without an account. The German government has tried to get the channel shut down for months now, after Hildmann fled the country and engaged in Holocaust denial (which is a crime here). The problem is that unlike all other major social networks, Telegram refuses to comply with German laws (in particular the NetzDG) and has refused to name a contact person for the authorities so that egregious violations could be stopped. I read an article that claimed the only form of contact between German authorities and Telegram used to be a bilateral anti-terror coordination with the US FBI, which makes sense given the common problem of radical Islamist terrorism.
  - tomjen3 5y ago
    I mean if Telegram doesn't have a business in Germany, why should they care what laws Germany passes? Porn sites are probably against the law in Saudi Arabia, but why is that Pornhubs problem?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo 5y ago
      If you want to do business in a country you usually have to follow the laws of the country. If you are not following these laws and you get booted out of their respective markets you can't cry censorship it's that easy.
      - Longhanks 5y ago
        Except Telegram does not do business in Germany. Even if Germany gets Telegram kicked off the German App Store, they have no way to block Telegram's web servers, which do not need to comply with Germany's jurisdiction. If they don't go down the route of implementing a state-level firewall such as China is doing, they're fighting a losing battle. And frankly, if Telegram were inaccessible from Germany, the same people would simply use the next messaging app. There's nothing groundbreaking within Telegram that cannot be replicated. IMHO, this is the government embarrassing themselves with the fact that they've lost the goodwill of a huge chunk of the population and trying to blame Telegram for it - as if the mindset and communication of those unsatisfied people would simply change/disappear if they were no longer able to access Telegram. Which furthermore shows that today's governments still do not understand the internet.
viktorcode 5y ago
Telegram blocked calls to violence before, so technically it's nothing new.
stjohnswarts 5y ago
Well telegram has to abide by German law, otherwise authorities will seize all their assets in Germany (and maybe even Europe?) and shut them down and sue them international court for ignoring the will of a Nation. I don't think Telegram had much choice in the matter. Thanks for the summary.
A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
I never used Telegram. How do channels work? Does Telegram has that kind of visibility into what is happening in them?
- pepesza 5y ago
  Telegram does not have any meaningful e2e encryption (apart from 1-1 on-demand stuff nobody uses). So yes, everything is visible to Telegram.
  - Aeolun 5y ago
    I don’t quite understand what the point of telegram is then? Is the only benefit it isn’t owned by Facebook?
    - theshrike79 5y ago
      Having E2EE in a large Telegram channel would be like having an E2EE Facebook group, subreddit or even a web forum. If something leaks, it's through users, not through someone listening in or MITMing the communication.
    - Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
      There is no point in end to end encryption in public channels, so this specific criticism is not valid.
    - jeroenhd 5y ago
      > I don’t quite understand what the point of telegram is then? It's UX is far superior to any cross-platform competitor. On top of that, its client is open source and the servers have easy and free bot APIs. It also has channels, which broadcast your messages to followers and many secure competitors don't have such functionality. It's not encrypted, but as it turns out most people don't really care about that in practice. If they would, texting wouldn't be popular in places like the USA. That's probably why people go to Telegram instead of Signal, ease of use is more important than privacy for most, especially in group chats that are generally about what's for dinner.
t0bia_s 5y ago
Another reason to use Element (Matrix), where phone number is not required.
- Arnt 5y ago
  Does Matrix have groups like Telegram's? I thought Matrix was just a messenger app.
  - ls15 5y ago
    Matrix has "rooms".
    - Arnt 5y ago
      Do rooms work like a blog/feeds/readers? I thought they were more like Signal's groups.
      - ls15 5y ago
        I think threaded discussions are planned, but so far it is only for linear discussions.
        Arnt 5y ago
        That's very different from the relevant Telegram groups. Those function more like a blog on the web — non-subscribers can search for them, only the group's owner(s) can post, and everyone else can just read. And they work for very large audiences, 100k readers is no problem.
        ls15 5y ago
        I see. With matrix rooms it is possible to set permissions in a way that only the owner can send messages in that room. There are also large(-ish) rooms, such as #/room/#matrix:matrix.org with > 30k users, but I think threaded discussions would allow for a functionality that resembles a blog where subscribers can comment on articles. And there is a preview functionality that technically allows users to read public rooms without being subscribed. Of course Telegram is quite a bit more polished and fun to use than element or other matrix clients so far.
doowop 5y ago
The headline of your post is very misleading since the linked articles headline translates to “Telegram blocks(!) channels”, not cencors. By mistranslating this to “censoring” you are using the language of those who are actively distributing fake news. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I hope that you’ll correct the title of the post.
kyberias 5y ago
Gist of it.

pessimizer 5y ago

Probably makes sense. I'm not super familiar with Telegram, but to know a channel is doing stuff that's against German law probably means that someone with access to the channel reported it to authorities. Germany is also one of those countries that blanket bans particular groups/parties in general, which the US didn't really do until after 9/11. Banning a group chat isn't much different.

skrause 5y ago
> Germany is also one of those countries that blanket bans particular groups/parties in general You make it sound like Germany is constantly banning political parties. There have been exactly two bans of political parties in the post-war history of Germany: A nazi party in 1952 and a communist party in 1956. Also don't forget who occupied Germany in this decade and made a lot of its decisions.
- pessimizer 5y ago
  But there are many banned named groups. Germany is not unique in this. That's a thing foreign to the US that Americans may not understand, which is why I mentioned it. I can start a group called the "Destroy The Government Now Neo-Nazis" in the US with no fear that it will ever be banned.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > I can start a group called the "Destroy The Government Now Neo-Nazis" in the US with no fear that it will ever be banned. Gang injunctions (sufficiently, but not exclusively) prove that this is not true.
    - hedora 5y ago
      Neo-Nazis are good white Christian folks. Domestic terrorism and gang laws don't apply to them. (I wish I was joking.)
      - dragonwriter 5y ago
        “The US is structurally sympathetic to Neo-Nazis” is a different, and more difficult to refute, argument than “the US doesn't ban groups”.
  - cft 5y ago
    A group like that won't stay up a day on a FAANG platform
mschuster91 5y ago
> Probably makes sense. I'm not super familiar with Telegram, but to know a channel is doing stuff that's against German law probably means that someone with access to the channel reported it to authorities. Avocadolf's channels are public, you could access them on the Telegram web UI even without an account. The German government has tried to get the channel shut down for months now, after Hildmann fled the country and engaged in Holocaust denial (which is a crime here). The problem is that unlike all other major social networks, Telegram refuses to comply with German laws (in particular the NetzDG) and has refused to name a contact person for the authorities so that egregious violations could be stopped. I read an article that claimed the only form of contact between German authorities and Telegram used to be a bilateral anti-terror coordination with the US FBI, which makes sense given the common problem of radical Islamist terrorism.
- tomjen3 5y ago
  I mean if Telegram doesn't have a business in Germany, why should they care what laws Germany passes? Porn sites are probably against the law in Saudi Arabia, but why is that Pornhubs problem?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo 5y ago
    If you want to do business in a country you usually have to follow the laws of the country. If you are not following these laws and you get booted out of their respective markets you can't cry censorship it's that easy.
    - Longhanks 5y ago
      Except Telegram does not do business in Germany. Even if Germany gets Telegram kicked off the German App Store, they have no way to block Telegram's web servers, which do not need to comply with Germany's jurisdiction. If they don't go down the route of implementing a state-level firewall such as China is doing, they're fighting a losing battle. And frankly, if Telegram were inaccessible from Germany, the same people would simply use the next messaging app. There's nothing groundbreaking within Telegram that cannot be replicated. IMHO, this is the government embarrassing themselves with the fact that they've lost the goodwill of a huge chunk of the population and trying to blame Telegram for it - as if the mindset and communication of those unsatisfied people would simply change/disappear if they were no longer able to access Telegram. Which furthermore shows that today's governments still do not understand the internet.

viktorcode 5y ago

Telegram blocked calls to violence before, so technically it's nothing new.

stjohnswarts 5y ago

Well telegram has to abide by German law, otherwise authorities will seize all their assets in Germany (and maybe even Europe?) and shut them down and sue them international court for ignoring the will of a Nation. I don't think Telegram had much choice in the matter. Thanks for the summary.

A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago

I never used Telegram. How do channels work? Does Telegram has that kind of visibility into what is happening in them?

pepesza 5y ago
Telegram does not have any meaningful e2e encryption (apart from 1-1 on-demand stuff nobody uses). So yes, everything is visible to Telegram.
- Aeolun 5y ago
  I don’t quite understand what the point of telegram is then? Is the only benefit it isn’t owned by Facebook?
  - theshrike79 5y ago
    Having E2EE in a large Telegram channel would be like having an E2EE Facebook group, subreddit or even a web forum. If something leaks, it's through users, not through someone listening in or MITMing the communication.
  - Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
    There is no point in end to end encryption in public channels, so this specific criticism is not valid.
  - jeroenhd 5y ago
    > I don’t quite understand what the point of telegram is then? It's UX is far superior to any cross-platform competitor. On top of that, its client is open source and the servers have easy and free bot APIs. It also has channels, which broadcast your messages to followers and many secure competitors don't have such functionality. It's not encrypted, but as it turns out most people don't really care about that in practice. If they would, texting wouldn't be popular in places like the USA. That's probably why people go to Telegram instead of Signal, ease of use is more important than privacy for most, especially in group chats that are generally about what's for dinner.

t0bia_s 5y ago

Another reason to use Element (Matrix), where phone number is not required.

Arnt 5y ago
Does Matrix have groups like Telegram's? I thought Matrix was just a messenger app.
- ls15 5y ago
  Matrix has "rooms".
  - Arnt 5y ago
    Do rooms work like a blog/feeds/readers? I thought they were more like Signal's groups.
    - ls15 5y ago
      I think threaded discussions are planned, but so far it is only for linear discussions.
      - Arnt 5y ago
        That's very different from the relevant Telegram groups. Those function more like a blog on the web — non-subscribers can search for them, only the group's owner(s) can post, and everyone else can just read. And they work for very large audiences, 100k readers is no problem.
        ls15 5y ago
        I see. With matrix rooms it is possible to set permissions in a way that only the owner can send messages in that room. There are also large(-ish) rooms, such as #/room/#matrix:matrix.org with > 30k users, but I think threaded discussions would allow for a functionality that resembles a blog where subscribers can comment on articles. And there is a preview functionality that technically allows users to read public rooms without being subscribed. Of course Telegram is quite a bit more polished and fun to use than element or other matrix clients so far.

doowop 5y ago

The headline of your post is very misleading since the linked articles headline translates to “Telegram blocks(!) channels”, not cencors. By mistranslating this to “censoring” you are using the language of those who are actively distributing fake news. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I hope that you’ll correct the title of the post.

kyberias 5y ago

Gist of it.