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Personally I think quitting something that is amazing in so many ways but doesn't fulfil your front end needs after only 5m is something you may come to regret.

Personally I think quitting something that is amazing in so many ways but doesn't fulfil your front end needs after only 5m is something you may come to regret. Did you ask for a change of team / change of work focus? Did you bring up your issues with a manager? If you were on my team and an attrition risk due to not working in the tech you were hired for I'd have made sure that was changed. Five months is just about enough time to find your feet in a large org's codebase, I think having exposure to the Rails side is to your benefit, and given a bit more time you could have worked to resolve the other gripes. Shopify is a huge, profitable organization, with many, many, many opportunities for developers to do their best work. I find it hard to believe there isn't something fascinating there for anyone who likes writing code. Good luck in whatever you are doing now though, sounds like you have the talent for doing whatever you wish which is a great place to be in. FWIW I do not work for Shopify.

hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
One of the things I have seen many times with junior engineers is that, when things aren't going exactly as they desire, instead of having conversations with their managers: "Hey, can you give me a timeline of when I'll be able to focus more on frontend dev, i.e. React", instead they bail (or, mention it in the slightest of passing, and then if stuff doesn't change they feel their concerns weren't addressed and leave). To be clear, I do NOT blame junior devs at all for this. It takes experience and growth to build the confidence to know how to be direct with managers in a way that is constructive to all parties. I'd just highlight with eng managers to be extra aware that, for junior engineers, that you'll likely need to "pull" more and dig out if there is something more that the engineer wants. Of course, you may not always be able to accommodate them, but if they do leave you will know it wasn't for lack of communication.
- colmvp 5y ago
  On the flipside, there's nothing stopping a manager from diving into knowing their subordinates and assessing their mood and figuring how to make them happier if they happen to be unhappy. In my previous role, I had two managers: one who made it a point to ask me how I was doing and if there was something he could do and another who never had a one-on-one with me until I handed over my code when I left the company.
- ttymck 5y ago
  Earlier in my career, which is not too long ago, I behaved exactly as you've described. It was not worth the risk of seeming "difficult" or "demanding" as someone with little experience, to be asking for (ostensibly selfish) changes from my manager. It seemed much less confrontational, and often more lucrative, to simply find work elsewhere. If the candidate was misled in the hiring process, and the organization (which is the sum of its people) is dysfunctional enough to result in that outcome, it's not unreasonable to think asking for it to be fixed may be taken negatively by the folks who put you in that situation.
  - monkeynotes 5y ago
    > may be taken negatively by the folks who put you in that situation From the author's account they seem to have extremely supportive managers. Not only that, the business spent a lot of time and care helping the hire figure out if they are a good fit and with all that invested I am sure they'd prefer a shot at fixing the problem. I'd be a little upset if as a manager my report resigned cited any of the issues the author reported without at least allowing me a chance to work with them on it. Also worth noting, the author is a senior dev.
    - bradlys 5y ago
      > From the author's account they seem to have extremely supportive managers. Would you shit talk your previous company/managers with your name attached to it? Especially if you were early in your career? Probably not.
- jrochkind1 5y ago
  "To be clear, I do NOT blame junior devs at all for this. It takes experience and growth..." Also, as software engineers right now we have a very weird experience where the job market is better for us as employees than almost anyone else ever anywhere. Like this is as good as it gets. So it gives the illusion you can find the perfect job, if you don't like a place, why not leave for something else, you can easily do that! So while generally I'm partial to your point of view, job hopping so quickly is unlikely to lead to the job satisfaction you hope it will. But... in that environment... if you wanted to mostly work on JS and that's not what the job was, why not leave for something that is what you wanted all along?
boringg 5y ago
Agree with this - first job I had one of the senior members of the organization came over and said something along the lines of it will take 6 months to be a contribute just from understanding all the intricacies of the business/code etc.
capableweb 5y ago
> Personally I think quitting something that is amazing in so many ways but doesn't fulfil your front end needs after only 5m is something you may come to regret. > Did you ask for a change of team / change of work focus? Did you bring up your issues with a manager? If you were on my team and an attrition risk due to not working in the tech you were hired for I'd have made sure that was changed. I'm not sure if I misunderstand the blogpost, or if you do, but I gather the author quit because they realize they didn't like eCommerce after all. At least that's the impression I get from this passage: > This line of self-questioning mutated into, "Do I care about eCommerce?" It was a question I never had the bravery to ask myself before. I've worked almost exclusively in eCommerce of one form or another since I started working in tech. I began to wonder if it might be time to try something different. So changing team or work focus probably wouldn't help the author, as the core theme of the company wasn't attractive.
- monkeynotes 5y ago
  I still think that Shopify is such a huge org you can find so much opportunity that does not feel like ecommerce. If the author is morally opposed to ecommerce then good for them sticking to principles, but other than that I don't feel like they gave the job a fair shake. People are different though, but I'd love a job with as much time off as I like and I'd be willing to work in an industry I didn't love if the people, benefits, compensation, technology, and culture were all great fits. I mean, I switch off at 5pm so maybe I am different.
  - capableweb 5y ago
    > I still think that Shopify is such a huge org you can find so much opportunity that does not feel like ecommerce Yeah, I thought about that too at first, maybe he could build internal tooling supporting the developer teams for example. But I think if I didn't believe in what the company overall did, I wouldn't have any motivation to help their developer teams being more efficient either. > maybe I am different Yeah, I do think that's the answer in the end, we're all different and value different things :) I for example would trade all the things you listed for just working on something I personally believe in, as I see those other things as changeable over time, but the mission of a company tends to stay mostly within the same radius, so unless that resonates, I'm over it quickly. Shopify is just consumerism at scale, something I don't care about, even though the pay would be nice and I got "unlimited" time off, I wouldn't work there.
BatteryMountain 5y ago
Maybe Imposter Syndrome got to this one?
pfisherman 5y ago
I think the lesson here is to be very clear about what you are looking for in terms of role, scope, and development opportunities during the hiring process; negotiate and come to a clear understanding with your direct and skip level managers; and then hold them accountable in your one-on-ones. If they are not delivering on their end, put them on a PIP. (1) Remind them of what they agreed to, (2) inform them where / how they are not delivering, and (3) work out a plan and timeline to get things on track. If things do not improve then quit. This isn’t being difficult or demanding, it is managing upward. This also does not mean refuse to do things outside of your scope when needed — on a temporary basis.
jrochkind1 5y ago
At first my reaction to your comment was "wait, what was so amazing in so many ways? If it's not a good fit it's not a good fit". But thinking another minute... "The people were phenomenal" -- okay that is actually HUGE. It's much rarer than you might think, in my experience, to find a place to work where where most everyone is good at their jobs, motivated, friendly, and just generally great to work with. Giving that up is actually a pretty big risk.

hn_throwaway_99 5y ago

One of the things I have seen many times with junior engineers is that, when things aren't going exactly as they desire, instead of having conversations with their managers: "Hey, can you give me a timeline of when I'll be able to focus more on frontend dev, i.e. React", instead they bail (or, mention it in the slightest of passing, and then if stuff doesn't change they feel their concerns weren't addressed and leave). To be clear, I do NOT blame junior devs at all for this. It takes experience and growth to build the confidence to know how to be direct with managers in a way that is constructive to all parties. I'd just highlight with eng managers to be extra aware that, for junior engineers, that you'll likely need to "pull" more and dig out if there is something more that the engineer wants. Of course, you may not always be able to accommodate them, but if they do leave you will know it wasn't for lack of communication.

colmvp 5y ago
On the flipside, there's nothing stopping a manager from diving into knowing their subordinates and assessing their mood and figuring how to make them happier if they happen to be unhappy. In my previous role, I had two managers: one who made it a point to ask me how I was doing and if there was something he could do and another who never had a one-on-one with me until I handed over my code when I left the company.
ttymck 5y ago
Earlier in my career, which is not too long ago, I behaved exactly as you've described. It was not worth the risk of seeming "difficult" or "demanding" as someone with little experience, to be asking for (ostensibly selfish) changes from my manager. It seemed much less confrontational, and often more lucrative, to simply find work elsewhere. If the candidate was misled in the hiring process, and the organization (which is the sum of its people) is dysfunctional enough to result in that outcome, it's not unreasonable to think asking for it to be fixed may be taken negatively by the folks who put you in that situation.
- monkeynotes 5y ago
  > may be taken negatively by the folks who put you in that situation From the author's account they seem to have extremely supportive managers. Not only that, the business spent a lot of time and care helping the hire figure out if they are a good fit and with all that invested I am sure they'd prefer a shot at fixing the problem. I'd be a little upset if as a manager my report resigned cited any of the issues the author reported without at least allowing me a chance to work with them on it. Also worth noting, the author is a senior dev.
  - bradlys 5y ago
    > From the author's account they seem to have extremely supportive managers. Would you shit talk your previous company/managers with your name attached to it? Especially if you were early in your career? Probably not.
jrochkind1 5y ago
"To be clear, I do NOT blame junior devs at all for this. It takes experience and growth..." Also, as software engineers right now we have a very weird experience where the job market is better for us as employees than almost anyone else ever anywhere. Like this is as good as it gets. So it gives the illusion you can find the perfect job, if you don't like a place, why not leave for something else, you can easily do that! So while generally I'm partial to your point of view, job hopping so quickly is unlikely to lead to the job satisfaction you hope it will. But... in that environment... if you wanted to mostly work on JS and that's not what the job was, why not leave for something that is what you wanted all along?

boringg 5y ago

Agree with this - first job I had one of the senior members of the organization came over and said something along the lines of it will take 6 months to be a contribute just from understanding all the intricacies of the business/code etc.

capableweb 5y ago

> Personally I think quitting something that is amazing in so many ways but doesn't fulfil your front end needs after only 5m is something you may come to regret. > Did you ask for a change of team / change of work focus? Did you bring up your issues with a manager? If you were on my team and an attrition risk due to not working in the tech you were hired for I'd have made sure that was changed. I'm not sure if I misunderstand the blogpost, or if you do, but I gather the author quit because they realize they didn't like eCommerce after all. At least that's the impression I get from this passage: > This line of self-questioning mutated into, "Do I care about eCommerce?" It was a question I never had the bravery to ask myself before. I've worked almost exclusively in eCommerce of one form or another since I started working in tech. I began to wonder if it might be time to try something different. So changing team or work focus probably wouldn't help the author, as the core theme of the company wasn't attractive.

monkeynotes 5y ago
I still think that Shopify is such a huge org you can find so much opportunity that does not feel like ecommerce. If the author is morally opposed to ecommerce then good for them sticking to principles, but other than that I don't feel like they gave the job a fair shake. People are different though, but I'd love a job with as much time off as I like and I'd be willing to work in an industry I didn't love if the people, benefits, compensation, technology, and culture were all great fits. I mean, I switch off at 5pm so maybe I am different.
- capableweb 5y ago
  > I still think that Shopify is such a huge org you can find so much opportunity that does not feel like ecommerce Yeah, I thought about that too at first, maybe he could build internal tooling supporting the developer teams for example. But I think if I didn't believe in what the company overall did, I wouldn't have any motivation to help their developer teams being more efficient either. > maybe I am different Yeah, I do think that's the answer in the end, we're all different and value different things :) I for example would trade all the things you listed for just working on something I personally believe in, as I see those other things as changeable over time, but the mission of a company tends to stay mostly within the same radius, so unless that resonates, I'm over it quickly. Shopify is just consumerism at scale, something I don't care about, even though the pay would be nice and I got "unlimited" time off, I wouldn't work there.

BatteryMountain 5y ago

Maybe Imposter Syndrome got to this one?

pfisherman 5y ago

I think the lesson here is to be very clear about what you are looking for in terms of role, scope, and development opportunities during the hiring process; negotiate and come to a clear understanding with your direct and skip level managers; and then hold them accountable in your one-on-ones. If they are not delivering on their end, put them on a PIP. (1) Remind them of what they agreed to, (2) inform them where / how they are not delivering, and (3) work out a plan and timeline to get things on track. If things do not improve then quit. This isn’t being difficult or demanding, it is managing upward. This also does not mean refuse to do things outside of your scope when needed — on a temporary basis.

jrochkind1 5y ago

At first my reaction to your comment was "wait, what was so amazing in so many ways? If it's not a good fit it's not a good fit". But thinking another minute... "The people were phenomenal" -- okay that is actually HUGE. It's much rarer than you might think, in my experience, to find a place to work where where most everyone is good at their jobs, motivated, friendly, and just generally great to work with. Giving that up is actually a pretty big risk.