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Interesting how much hate I have seen for how Tesla didn’t do this before and how little enthusiasm or support there seems to be for this. This seems great!

davedx 5y ago
I cautiously support this. I'm glad they're monitoring congestion closely :)
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
SQueeeeeL 5y ago
The charging infrastructure has already been somewhat built out using the standard from other companies. Tesla having their own port caused a bifurcation which ultimately harmed EVs...
- wlesieutre 5y ago
  Back in 2014 Tesla offered up access to all of their supercharger related patents for free, but anyone who wanted to take advantage would have to agree to never attempt to enforce any other patent against Tesla or against any other company using your technology to make electric vehicles. So obviously no one used it because "give out free access to all of your future electric car technology forever" is a pretty shit trade for "we'll share our couple year head start on charging" in the long term, and now we have incompatible charging networks.
- surfmike 5y ago
  I’ve been to non-Tesla charging stations with three different port types (regular charging, then CCS and Chademo for high speed). So I wouldn’t blame Tesla entirely for that.
mupuff1234 5y ago
For a company that received billions in subsidies having open infrastructure really shouldn't be a choice IMO. But the government is probably more to blame for not making it mandatory.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  No other automaker built a network [1], and Tesla used vehicle profits from the S and X to do it. The subsidies received were used to bootstrap manufacturing capacity, and all other automakers were eligible for them if they had built EVs (Tesla's DOE loan was paid back 9 years early, with interest [2]). Only recently did they open a manufacturing facility in China solely to build Supercharger stations [3] (older versions of Superchargers were bespoke, built with Model S and X stacked inverters; newer versions are purpose built). TLDR Tesla recognized the charging story was crucial to EV sales, and spent the capital to have a superior product. To this day, no other automaker is doing the same. [1] Electrify America doesn't count, as it was funded out of VW's Dieselgate settlement, which is also why it couldn't be VW branded and the EA brand was created: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/10/vws-2-billion-penalty-for-diesel-scam-builds-ev-charging-network-across-us.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/10/vws-2-billion-penalty-for-di... [2] https://www.tesla.com/blog/tesla-repays-department-energy-loan-nine-years-early https://www.tesla.com/blog/tesla-repays-department-energy-lo... (May 22, 2013: Tesla Motors announced that it has paid off the entire loan awarded to the company by the Department of Energy in 2010. In addition to payments made in 2012 and Q1 2013, today’s wire of almost half a billion dollars ($451.8M) repays the full loan facility with interest. Following this payment, Tesla will be the only American car company to have fully repaid the government.) [3] https://insideevs.com/news/531709/tesla-completes-supercharger-factory/ https://insideevs.com/news/531709/tesla-completes-supercharg... (Tesla Completes Supercharger Factory In Shanghai; It will make 10,000 units (stalls) per year.)
  - clouddrover 5y ago
    > No other automaker built a network False. In North America, Electrify America (https://www.electrifyamerica.com/ https://www.electrifyamerica.com/) and Electrify Canada (https://www.electrify-canada.ca/ https://www.electrify-canada.ca/) are automaker built. Trying to claim it "doesn't count" is just childish. GM is funding EVgo's build of 350 kW chargers: https://insideevs.com/news/546869/gm-evgo-boost-charging-plan/ https://insideevs.com/news/546869/gm-evgo-boost-charging-pla... And of course you have Ionity in Europe: https://ionity.eu/ https://ionity.eu/
ericmay 5y ago
I think it's because if you're a Tesla owner, it's hard to be against this but it's really hard to be for it when you know that with superchargers in some locations/routes being at insane capacity that this will only make things worse. So if you own a Tesla and you're concerned you'll be shouted down. If you were previously complaining then now you don't have as much to complain about so you just don't post. I'm really curious to see how Tesla handles this. Will there be a surcharge or will it be more expensive for non-Tesla EVs? Will you be able to get priority in some fashion? Will Tesla, if it's truly an energy company and not an automaker begin to slowly not make as many cars? I mean if I can get a Model Y version of a Mercedes for $5k less and use all of Tesla's infrastructure ya know maybe that's an attractive option? ETC. As an investor though I love it because my thesis is Tesla is just a slow-moving all-encompassing energy conglomerate that makes cars and this is furthering that thesis.
- ProblemFactory 5y ago
  > superchargers in some locations/routes being at insane capacity that this will only make things worse If that happens, Tesla should set a price for other EVs which makes it profitable for them, and then just build as many charging locations as there is demand for. Everyone wins.
  - ericmay 5y ago
    Yea I'm generally onboard - how long until people start complaining about the "Tesla Tax" though? Or "why do I have to use the Tesla app"?
- fonix 5y ago
  Unless I misread the article it will be more expensive for non-tesla evs (the mentioned about the cost going towards supporting just that and building it out furhter), tesla's would pay the same. There would be no priority given either way afaik.

davedx 5y ago

I cautiously support this. I'm glad they're monitoring congestion closely :)

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

SQueeeeeL 5y ago

The charging infrastructure has already been somewhat built out using the standard from other companies. Tesla having their own port caused a bifurcation which ultimately harmed EVs...

wlesieutre 5y ago
Back in 2014 Tesla offered up access to all of their supercharger related patents for free, but anyone who wanted to take advantage would have to agree to never attempt to enforce any other patent against Tesla or against any other company using your technology to make electric vehicles. So obviously no one used it because "give out free access to all of your future electric car technology forever" is a pretty shit trade for "we'll share our couple year head start on charging" in the long term, and now we have incompatible charging networks.
surfmike 5y ago
I’ve been to non-Tesla charging stations with three different port types (regular charging, then CCS and Chademo for high speed). So I wouldn’t blame Tesla entirely for that.

mupuff1234 5y ago

For a company that received billions in subsidies having open infrastructure really shouldn't be a choice IMO. But the government is probably more to blame for not making it mandatory.

toomuchtodo 5y ago
No other automaker built a network [1], and Tesla used vehicle profits from the S and X to do it. The subsidies received were used to bootstrap manufacturing capacity, and all other automakers were eligible for them if they had built EVs (Tesla's DOE loan was paid back 9 years early, with interest [2]). Only recently did they open a manufacturing facility in China solely to build Supercharger stations [3] (older versions of Superchargers were bespoke, built with Model S and X stacked inverters; newer versions are purpose built). TLDR Tesla recognized the charging story was crucial to EV sales, and spent the capital to have a superior product. To this day, no other automaker is doing the same. [1] Electrify America doesn't count, as it was funded out of VW's Dieselgate settlement, which is also why it couldn't be VW branded and the EA brand was created: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/10/vws-2-billion-penalty-for-diesel-scam-builds-ev-charging-network-across-us.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/10/vws-2-billion-penalty-for-di... [2] https://www.tesla.com/blog/tesla-repays-department-energy-loan-nine-years-early https://www.tesla.com/blog/tesla-repays-department-energy-lo... (May 22, 2013: Tesla Motors announced that it has paid off the entire loan awarded to the company by the Department of Energy in 2010. In addition to payments made in 2012 and Q1 2013, today’s wire of almost half a billion dollars ($451.8M) repays the full loan facility with interest. Following this payment, Tesla will be the only American car company to have fully repaid the government.) [3] https://insideevs.com/news/531709/tesla-completes-supercharger-factory/ https://insideevs.com/news/531709/tesla-completes-supercharg... (Tesla Completes Supercharger Factory In Shanghai; It will make 10,000 units (stalls) per year.)
- clouddrover 5y ago
  > No other automaker built a network False. In North America, Electrify America (https://www.electrifyamerica.com/ https://www.electrifyamerica.com/) and Electrify Canada (https://www.electrify-canada.ca/ https://www.electrify-canada.ca/) are automaker built. Trying to claim it "doesn't count" is just childish. GM is funding EVgo's build of 350 kW chargers: https://insideevs.com/news/546869/gm-evgo-boost-charging-plan/ https://insideevs.com/news/546869/gm-evgo-boost-charging-pla... And of course you have Ionity in Europe: https://ionity.eu/ https://ionity.eu/

ericmay 5y ago

I think it's because if you're a Tesla owner, it's hard to be against this but it's really hard to be for it when you know that with superchargers in some locations/routes being at insane capacity that this will only make things worse. So if you own a Tesla and you're concerned you'll be shouted down. If you were previously complaining then now you don't have as much to complain about so you just don't post. I'm really curious to see how Tesla handles this. Will there be a surcharge or will it be more expensive for non-Tesla EVs? Will you be able to get priority in some fashion? Will Tesla, if it's truly an energy company and not an automaker begin to slowly not make as many cars? I mean if I can get a Model Y version of a Mercedes for $5k less and use all of Tesla's infrastructure ya know maybe that's an attractive option? ETC. As an investor though I love it because my thesis is Tesla is just a slow-moving all-encompassing energy conglomerate that makes cars and this is furthering that thesis.

ProblemFactory 5y ago
> superchargers in some locations/routes being at insane capacity that this will only make things worse If that happens, Tesla should set a price for other EVs which makes it profitable for them, and then just build as many charging locations as there is demand for. Everyone wins.
- ericmay 5y ago
  Yea I'm generally onboard - how long until people start complaining about the "Tesla Tax" though? Or "why do I have to use the Tesla app"?
fonix 5y ago
Unless I misread the article it will be more expensive for non-tesla evs (the mentioned about the cost going towards supporting just that and building it out furhter), tesla's would pay the same. There would be no priority given either way afaik.