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This is outstanding... I really wish I would have had this learning systemd as it would have saved me _hours_. Let's be real - a lot of Linux fundamental stuff

This is outstanding... I really wish I would have had this learning systemd as it would have saved me _hours_. Let's be real - a lot of Linux fundamental stuff is still pretty terse. Learning tools like this really smooth it out and optimize how long it takes to wrap your head around a concept. Also, I am a _huge_ advocate for hands-on in regards to retention. Adding to my favorites and will be passing this on over the years - thank you for such a great resource.

native_samples 5y ago
If anything the biggest problem the systemd docs have is verbosity. It's all classic UNIX man pages, a billion pages of detail on every possible setting with no useful examples anywhere. Fortunately the core system is simple enough that the learning curve isn't too steep but I'd really hate to try and learn it from the official docs. They don't even apply CSS to the HTML versions of the docs.
- westurner 5y ago
  Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd Web: https://systemd.io/ https://systemd.io/ Src: https://github.com/systemd/systemd https://github.com/systemd/systemd Systemd manpage index: https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/ https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/ https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.html# https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.htm... : man 1 systemd man systemd man init ...: man systemctl man journalctl man systemd.timer man systemd-resolved The Arch Linux wiki docs for systemd are succinct: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/systemd https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/systemd Fedora docs > "Understanding and administering systemd" https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/quick-docs/understanding-and-administering-systemd/ https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/quick-docs/understandin... RHEL7 System Administrator’s Guide > "Chapter 10. Managing Services with SystemD" https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/7/html/system_administrators_guide/chap-managing_services_with_systemd https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterp...
  - rob_c 5y ago
    And almost none of the tools help you naturally discover the missing feature you didn't know to solve the problem in the most "systemd*" way. The docs are not friendly enough to introduce you to new tools, and they're mostly shallow enough to not explain the technical details of how things interact or where all the defaults are stored. They exist but clearly this page exists because they need to improve. I know, I know, pull requests welcome....
  - Foxboron 5y ago
    Well, we also have a very nice manpage viewer. I think systemd.directives(7) is an often overlooked manpage. https://man.archlinux.org/man/systemd.directives.7 https://man.archlinux.org/man/systemd.directives.7
    - usr1106 5y ago
      Couldn't agree more. Once familiar with the big picture this page is the best starting point whenever to you want change something. To get the big picture I read the systemd posts on https://0pointer.net/blog/archives.html https://0pointer.net/blog/archives.html But that's 10 years already! No idea what would be recommended today.
    - westurner 5y ago
      FWIW, the man.vim vim plugin does grep and some syntax highlighting. https://github.com/vim-utils/vim-man https://github.com/vim-utils/vim-man
    - Arnavion 5y ago
      TIL about that manpage. I've always been guessing at which level in the hierarchy would contain a particular option ("Is it service-specific? Or maybe applies to all execs? Or maybe applies to all units?") and just giving up and opening them all in parallel.
  - native_samples 5y ago
    Yes, the Arch docs are the best. But they aren't from the systemd project itself, are they?
- rob_c 5y ago
  At that point I'd call the docs a developer guide rather than the docs a sleep deprived sysadmin needs at 3am to fix a server
morganvachon 5y ago
Agreed, I have generally avoided systemd as I don't feel it's fully baked yet (not trying to start a flame war, that is just my experience and I'm sure it's fine for others). Still, I need to really learn it both for when I am ready to use it daily and just to have it in my wheelhouse for supporting others. A guide like this seems like a great way to go "hands on" without spinning up an instance and fumbling through it blindly. Hopefully this guide will stay up to date given the "move fast, break things, wontfix" approach the systemd authors currently have with the project.
- throwawaysysd 5y ago
  >given the "move fast, break things, wontfix" approach the systemd authors currently have with the project. I don't understand where anyone is getting this impression from, that describes the opposite of my experience with systemd. The authors publish stability guarantees, and they have done so for several years: https://systemd.io/PORTABILITY_AND_STABILITY/ https://systemd.io/PORTABILITY_AND_STABILITY/
  - eternityforest 5y ago
    I love systemd both for it's actually functionality and the fact that it's almost like the flagship of a whole movement to make Linux more consistent and integrated and less of a pile o scripts. But for some reason, the authors occasionally say something that feels completely out of place for the project. They fix important stuff eventually, but sometimes it gets confusing to watch them discuss it. The "Invalid username runs a service as root" bug is a good example of something that they didn't seem to take seriously. But it's fixed now. Also, PulseAudio. Pulse is good. It's not that great and was deployed before it's ready on some distros. The whole Pulse/Jack split that is only just now being fixed was annoying. Some people might still judge Poettering based on 10yo bugs in Pulse rollout?
    - throwawaysysd 5y ago
      After a lot of recent events, I don't feel comfortable judging any open source project on the speed at which they fix bugs or the way they communicate about it. In open source there is no obligation for anyone to fix anything or communicate anything. To me it's a miracle when anything gets fixed at all. It feels like the community is still largely held together with duct tape and string.
noiwillnot 5y ago
There is a trillion of tutorials for every young and hyped technology out there: Svelte/FastAPI/Elm etc. However try to learn how to maintain and secure a server or a database or anything fundamental... and it can be really hard to find good and updated material.
summadat 5y ago
https://systemd-by-example.com https://systemd-by-example.com

native_samples 5y ago

If anything the biggest problem the systemd docs have is verbosity. It's all classic UNIX man pages, a billion pages of detail on every possible setting with no useful examples anywhere. Fortunately the core system is simple enough that the learning curve isn't too steep but I'd really hate to try and learn it from the official docs. They don't even apply CSS to the HTML versions of the docs.

westurner 5y ago
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd Web: https://systemd.io/ https://systemd.io/ Src: https://github.com/systemd/systemd https://github.com/systemd/systemd Systemd manpage index: https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/ https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/ https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.html# https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.htm... : man 1 systemd man systemd man init ...: man systemctl man journalctl man systemd.timer man systemd-resolved The Arch Linux wiki docs for systemd are succinct: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/systemd https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/systemd Fedora docs > "Understanding and administering systemd" https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/quick-docs/understanding-and-administering-systemd/ https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/quick-docs/understandin... RHEL7 System Administrator’s Guide > "Chapter 10. Managing Services with SystemD" https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/7/html/system_administrators_guide/chap-managing_services_with_systemd https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterp...
- rob_c 5y ago
  And almost none of the tools help you naturally discover the missing feature you didn't know to solve the problem in the most "systemd*" way. The docs are not friendly enough to introduce you to new tools, and they're mostly shallow enough to not explain the technical details of how things interact or where all the defaults are stored. They exist but clearly this page exists because they need to improve. I know, I know, pull requests welcome....
- Foxboron 5y ago
  Well, we also have a very nice manpage viewer. I think systemd.directives(7) is an often overlooked manpage. https://man.archlinux.org/man/systemd.directives.7 https://man.archlinux.org/man/systemd.directives.7
  - usr1106 5y ago
    Couldn't agree more. Once familiar with the big picture this page is the best starting point whenever to you want change something. To get the big picture I read the systemd posts on https://0pointer.net/blog/archives.html https://0pointer.net/blog/archives.html But that's 10 years already! No idea what would be recommended today.
  - westurner 5y ago
    FWIW, the man.vim vim plugin does grep and some syntax highlighting. https://github.com/vim-utils/vim-man https://github.com/vim-utils/vim-man
  - Arnavion 5y ago
    TIL about that manpage. I've always been guessing at which level in the hierarchy would contain a particular option ("Is it service-specific? Or maybe applies to all execs? Or maybe applies to all units?") and just giving up and opening them all in parallel.
- native_samples 5y ago
  Yes, the Arch docs are the best. But they aren't from the systemd project itself, are they?
rob_c 5y ago
At that point I'd call the docs a developer guide rather than the docs a sleep deprived sysadmin needs at 3am to fix a server

morganvachon 5y ago

Agreed, I have generally avoided systemd as I don't feel it's fully baked yet (not trying to start a flame war, that is just my experience and I'm sure it's fine for others). Still, I need to really learn it both for when I am ready to use it daily and just to have it in my wheelhouse for supporting others. A guide like this seems like a great way to go "hands on" without spinning up an instance and fumbling through it blindly. Hopefully this guide will stay up to date given the "move fast, break things, wontfix" approach the systemd authors currently have with the project.

throwawaysysd 5y ago
>given the "move fast, break things, wontfix" approach the systemd authors currently have with the project. I don't understand where anyone is getting this impression from, that describes the opposite of my experience with systemd. The authors publish stability guarantees, and they have done so for several years: https://systemd.io/PORTABILITY_AND_STABILITY/ https://systemd.io/PORTABILITY_AND_STABILITY/
- eternityforest 5y ago
  I love systemd both for it's actually functionality and the fact that it's almost like the flagship of a whole movement to make Linux more consistent and integrated and less of a pile o scripts. But for some reason, the authors occasionally say something that feels completely out of place for the project. They fix important stuff eventually, but sometimes it gets confusing to watch them discuss it. The "Invalid username runs a service as root" bug is a good example of something that they didn't seem to take seriously. But it's fixed now. Also, PulseAudio. Pulse is good. It's not that great and was deployed before it's ready on some distros. The whole Pulse/Jack split that is only just now being fixed was annoying. Some people might still judge Poettering based on 10yo bugs in Pulse rollout?
  - throwawaysysd 5y ago
    After a lot of recent events, I don't feel comfortable judging any open source project on the speed at which they fix bugs or the way they communicate about it. In open source there is no obligation for anyone to fix anything or communicate anything. To me it's a miracle when anything gets fixed at all. It feels like the community is still largely held together with duct tape and string.

noiwillnot 5y ago

There is a trillion of tutorials for every young and hyped technology out there: Svelte/FastAPI/Elm etc. However try to learn how to maintain and secure a server or a database or anything fundamental... and it can be really hard to find good and updated material.

summadat 5y ago

https://systemd-by-example.com https://systemd-by-example.com