5 ms·

America in 2022: >Need ID and face scan to pay banker extortion fees >Do not need ID to vote

whateveracct 5y ago
It's pretty well-established (or - at worst - there's a pretty strong first-American-principles argument) why requiring an ID to vote is unconstitutional. Governments have been constantly trying to figure out ways around it, but the fact that they have to figure out ways around it has good reason. On the flip-side, IRS information is private & potentially security-threatening information. I don't know how I feel about facial recognition to access it in principle. But to compare to to voter ID laws belies either a lack of knowledge in general of American Constitutional law..or it's intentionally-disingenuous propaganda.
- yostrovs 5y ago
  When you say "well-established," do you mean within your own mind? It seems like the public overwhelmingly (80%) thinks otherwise. https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/monmouthpoll_us_062121/ https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/monmouthp...
  - whateveracct 5y ago
    We don't use majority rule to settle issues of fundamental rights in the United States, so I don't see how your comment is relevant.
    - yostrovs 5y ago
      If these rights would be so fundamental that the Constitutional questions would be pretty much settled, you wouldn't have some states require ID while others not require ID to vote. There's clearly no legal consensus.
  - titusjohnson 5y ago
    How are public opinions on a topic related to ongoing well-established legal rulings on the topic?
    - yostrovs 5y ago
      Strangely, the well-established legal rulings are the opposite of what you think they are, so they wouldn't help your cause: https://www.judicialwatch.org/supreme-court-upholds-voter-id-law/ https://www.judicialwatch.org/supreme-court-upholds-voter-id... This being a democracy, public opinions do matter even about issues that may be settled by a court.
- lp0_on_fire 5y ago
  Given that citizens themselves don't have a right to vote under the US constitution I'm curious how it's "pretty well-established" that requiring an ID to vote is unconstitutional.
  - titusjohnson 5y ago
    Given that your first statement is an easily dismissible falsehood, how would we rate your level of understanding to even begin explaining that Payment for Rights isn't legal in the US?
    - lp0_on_fire 5y ago
      Please cite the specific article or amendment in the US Federal Constitution that explicitly gives citizens the right to vote.
      - titusjohnson 5y ago
        The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.
        AnonMessiah 5y ago
        This, the 14th amendment, doesn't give you the right to vote, this says you can't be denied voting based on race, color, or previous condition of servitude. The 19th amendment says it cannot be denied due to sex, the 24th says there can't be a poll tax, the 26th say you can't be denied because of your age as long as you're over 18. There is no right to vote in the U.S. constitution or Bill of Rights, because the "Founding Fathers" were a bunch or racist elitists who thought that common people were too stupid to look out for their own best interest. EDIT: fixed typos
        whateveracct 5y ago
        You should read up on "negative rights" "Citizens shall not be denied X" is as strong as rights are expressed in the Constitution. This is like saying the Constitution doesn't give people the right of free speech because it's expressed in a negative rights way (govt shall not impede) All this was high school civics stuff - did you get to take such a class? I know high school in America is all over the place.
- anakaine 5y ago
  I dont understand why requesting ID to check off a voter on an electoral roll is a bad thing. 1. Anyone should be able to register to vote, as long as they are eligible. 2. Eligibility should be straight forward (this seems to be where the issue is). 3. On election day you turn up, show a proof of ID so the roll gets checked off, go vote for President Kang. How else do you stop people from double voting / voting as a dead relative / registering their pet to vote? In those places that have mail in voting: request your papers ahead of time, they get mailed to your registered address. If tour address is wrong, then your registration should be treated as invalid because you could be living anywhere, and you don't get the papers until it has been updated.
  - ashwagary 5y ago
    ID cards should be free if they are a requirement to vote. Many people cant afford the 50-100$ required to get an ID, sounds crazy but it's true.

It's pretty well-established (or - at worst - there's a pretty strong first-American-principles argument) why requiring an ID to vote is unconstitutional. Governments have been constantly trying to figure out ways around it, but the fact that they have to figure out ways around it has good reason. On the flip-side, IRS information is private & potentially security-threatening information. I don't know how I feel about facial recognition to access it in principle. But to compare to to voter ID laws belies either a lack of knowledge in general of American Constitutional law..or it's intentionally-disingenuous propaganda.

yostrovs 5y ago
When you say "well-established," do you mean within your own mind? It seems like the public overwhelmingly (80%) thinks otherwise. https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/monmouthpoll_us_062121/ https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/monmouthp...
- whateveracct 5y ago
  We don't use majority rule to settle issues of fundamental rights in the United States, so I don't see how your comment is relevant.
  - yostrovs 5y ago
    If these rights would be so fundamental that the Constitutional questions would be pretty much settled, you wouldn't have some states require ID while others not require ID to vote. There's clearly no legal consensus.
- titusjohnson 5y ago
  How are public opinions on a topic related to ongoing well-established legal rulings on the topic?
  - yostrovs 5y ago
    Strangely, the well-established legal rulings are the opposite of what you think they are, so they wouldn't help your cause: https://www.judicialwatch.org/supreme-court-upholds-voter-id-law/ https://www.judicialwatch.org/supreme-court-upholds-voter-id... This being a democracy, public opinions do matter even about issues that may be settled by a court.
lp0_on_fire 5y ago
Given that citizens themselves don't have a right to vote under the US constitution I'm curious how it's "pretty well-established" that requiring an ID to vote is unconstitutional.
- titusjohnson 5y ago
  Given that your first statement is an easily dismissible falsehood, how would we rate your level of understanding to even begin explaining that Payment for Rights isn't legal in the US?
  - lp0_on_fire 5y ago
    Please cite the specific article or amendment in the US Federal Constitution that explicitly gives citizens the right to vote.
    - titusjohnson 5y ago
      The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.
      - AnonMessiah 5y ago
        This, the 14th amendment, doesn't give you the right to vote, this says you can't be denied voting based on race, color, or previous condition of servitude. The 19th amendment says it cannot be denied due to sex, the 24th says there can't be a poll tax, the 26th say you can't be denied because of your age as long as you're over 18. There is no right to vote in the U.S. constitution or Bill of Rights, because the "Founding Fathers" were a bunch or racist elitists who thought that common people were too stupid to look out for their own best interest. EDIT: fixed typos
        whateveracct 5y ago
        You should read up on "negative rights" "Citizens shall not be denied X" is as strong as rights are expressed in the Constitution. This is like saying the Constitution doesn't give people the right of free speech because it's expressed in a negative rights way (govt shall not impede) All this was high school civics stuff - did you get to take such a class? I know high school in America is all over the place.
anakaine 5y ago
I dont understand why requesting ID to check off a voter on an electoral roll is a bad thing. 1. Anyone should be able to register to vote, as long as they are eligible. 2. Eligibility should be straight forward (this seems to be where the issue is). 3. On election day you turn up, show a proof of ID so the roll gets checked off, go vote for President Kang. How else do you stop people from double voting / voting as a dead relative / registering their pet to vote? In those places that have mail in voting: request your papers ahead of time, they get mailed to your registered address. If tour address is wrong, then your registration should be treated as invalid because you could be living anywhere, and you don't get the papers until it has been updated.
- ashwagary 5y ago
  ID cards should be free if they are a requirement to vote. Many people cant afford the 50-100$ required to get an ID, sounds crazy but it's true.