9 ms·

The group of truly indie studios is dwindling unfortunately. Tencent and Microsoft have both spread a lot of money around. Perhaps for varying reasons, namely

The group of truly indie studios is dwindling unfortunately. Tencent and Microsoft have both spread a lot of money around. Perhaps for varying reasons, namely MS needs to make up for the lack of titles developed for the Xbox Series, and add titles to Game Pass to make it more a more attractive offering.

DrBazza 5y ago
I can think of several recent releases without even searching: Melkhior's Mansion was released this week, Slipways earlier in the year, and Midnight Fight Express coming soon. I don't know if that's representative of indie games or not. There's so many platforms to build for, and on some (xbox/ps5) a high(er) barrier to entry, vs. low on the PC, or mobile. I'm not surprised that there's much indie action on the xbox/ps5.
- krajzeg 5y ago
  As the author of Slipways, it warms my heart to see it mentioned randomly in a HN comment! As an indie game developer (hard to get more indie than me, I think, since I'm doing this mostly solo), I can attest that it's never been easier to get your game on Steam or a console platform. On Steam it's mostly a matter of a $100 fee and filling a form. Consoles are a bit harder, but still dramatically more open to indie titles than say a decade ago, and all of them are possible to get on even for small developers. I also wouldn't say that "the group of indie dev studios is dwindling". It's just a matter of the old indie studios "growing up" to become bigger enterprises, but there is tons of other people replacing them on the lowest rung, with teams of several people and true labor of love projects.
  - karpierz 5y ago
    Slipways is an amazing game! It's so nice building little galactic empires without fussing with spreadsheets or war.
  - DrBazza 5y ago
    Unfortunately, I'm not a gamer, and run a weird version of linux which I don't think you support anyway, but I have played Slipways (a friend purchased it) on the PC, and it's a great game!
tomnipotent 5y ago
> The group of truly indie studios is dwindling unfortunately. Have you looked at Steam recently? Indie studios are doing just fine, and new indie studios are popping up all the time. I'd argue the indie market is stronger than ever.
- derefr 5y ago
  I assume by "truly indie" they mean "bootstrapped or invested by neutral/disinterested VCs" — as opposed to 1. invested in by one of the platform owners themselves, in exchange for a [temporary] exclusivity agreement, making them essentially a sharecropper on the platform; or 2. invested in almost exclusively by a single bigcorp publisher, making the studio essentially a secret marque of that publisher for projects they don't want associated with their regular brand image. Many of the games that later make it to Steam, were originally funded by either one of the platform owners, or by a bigcorp publisher.
  - tomnipotent 5y ago
    Changing the definition still doesn't change how many indie studios are out there. There's been zero evidence here that there isn't a healthy indie market, but plenty that there is. > Many of the games that later make it to Steam, were originally funded by either one of the platform owners My account is full of games (including top sellers) with no such arrangements. And I have more access to such games than at any time in history.
    - derefr 5y ago
      These indie companies are no more independent (the meaning of the word "indie") than a person hawking MLM products is independent. They're effective employees of a bigcorp — with all the same danger of being "fired" by their publisher at any time for misbehavior. > What evidence? My account is full of games (including top sellers) with no such arrangements. Ignore indie games that have been on Steam for years and years, or that only get published on Steam and no other platforms; these are the exceptions to the rule (despite this set containing some of the largest hits by sales volume.) While there are studios that sell only on Steam and other low-barrier-to-entry channels, 99% of them don't last more than a year or two, because selling only on Steam is leaving almost all your money on the ground. There's a reason that many of these games don't get support updates any more and won't run on e.g. macOS or Linux after any major OS update, despite originally intending support for those platforms: the studio didn't survive. And while there are indie studios that eventually take their console-exclusive game over to Steam, it's often still published by the publisher on Steam. Take a careful look at the Steam catalog page for the "publisher" field. If there is one? That's who's making the direct revenue on the game sales. Like the publisher of a book. The "author" — the studio — is only getting a commission. There are a few indie studios who manage to "earn out" their deals with publishers, and take over their own Steam pages (though not usually their console marketing rights — the platform owners don't like dealing with the long tail of self-publishers, they much prefer well-known bigcorps as marketing partners.)
baby 5y ago
Do you have a switch? I can’t make sense of your comment honestly
ianhawes 5y ago
> The group of truly indie studios is dwindling unfortunately. This is inaccurate. I don't have the stats to back it up, but the power of Unity Engine and Unreal Engine have effectively created an indie game developer renaissance. One of my favorite games at the moment, Hell Let Loose, is published by an indie studio that started in 2017 as a Kickstarter project. They launched their PC version last summer and successfully launched an Xbox port this past fall. It is objectively a better (but harder) game than COD WWII or Battlefield V, both of which are considered AAA titles and have had hundreds of millions put into them for development. Combine that with the lower barrier to entry with the discoverability of games on Steam and Xbox marketplaces and you have a very hot market. Oh, and consumers play video games now more than ever.
- vymague 5y ago
  Inaccurate in what way? Indie studios getting bought by Tencent is true.
- vintermann 5y ago
  Yes, the problem is that the reliance on these few engines is a worrying form of concentration in itself. Especially for the Unreal engine, which is used aggressively to push the Epic games store. How independent are they really when they're so dependent on a single software vendor? And, to my eyes, Epic uses openly monopolistic practices: they drop the license fee for the engine if you use their game store.
- kevinventullo 5y ago
  Ironically, HLL is a lot closer to the original BF1942 than any other game I’ve seen recently.
- lowbloodsugar 5y ago
  I'm having the opposite experience. I dropped probably $400 on games over the holidays and found three games I wanted to play. I used to make games, so I hated when people used GameStop because it avoided the developers getting any money. But now I'm thinking that GameStop would be great, because most all but three of the games I bought just suck. These online-purchase-only systems frankly need a one-hour refund policy. So many games where the controls are just jank (like 100% janky). Like everyone looked at Celeste and thought "This game is good because it's hard" instead of "This game is good because it rewards skill". I'd rather play Celeste and Returnal than these other utter wastes of hard drive. I only made it through Unsighted because you can make yourself invulnerable: fun story, fun ideas, fun levels, jank combat. Bah humbug.
skazazes 5y ago
Valheim, developed by a new indie studio of 5 people, just won PC Gamer's GOTY

DrBazza 5y ago

I can think of several recent releases without even searching: Melkhior's Mansion was released this week, Slipways earlier in the year, and Midnight Fight Express coming soon. I don't know if that's representative of indie games or not. There's so many platforms to build for, and on some (xbox/ps5) a high(er) barrier to entry, vs. low on the PC, or mobile. I'm not surprised that there's much indie action on the xbox/ps5.

krajzeg 5y ago
As the author of Slipways, it warms my heart to see it mentioned randomly in a HN comment! As an indie game developer (hard to get more indie than me, I think, since I'm doing this mostly solo), I can attest that it's never been easier to get your game on Steam or a console platform. On Steam it's mostly a matter of a $100 fee and filling a form. Consoles are a bit harder, but still dramatically more open to indie titles than say a decade ago, and all of them are possible to get on even for small developers. I also wouldn't say that "the group of indie dev studios is dwindling". It's just a matter of the old indie studios "growing up" to become bigger enterprises, but there is tons of other people replacing them on the lowest rung, with teams of several people and true labor of love projects.
- karpierz 5y ago
  Slipways is an amazing game! It's so nice building little galactic empires without fussing with spreadsheets or war.
- DrBazza 5y ago
  Unfortunately, I'm not a gamer, and run a weird version of linux which I don't think you support anyway, but I have played Slipways (a friend purchased it) on the PC, and it's a great game!

tomnipotent 5y ago

> The group of truly indie studios is dwindling unfortunately. Have you looked at Steam recently? Indie studios are doing just fine, and new indie studios are popping up all the time. I'd argue the indie market is stronger than ever.

derefr 5y ago
I assume by "truly indie" they mean "bootstrapped or invested by neutral/disinterested VCs" — as opposed to 1. invested in by one of the platform owners themselves, in exchange for a [temporary] exclusivity agreement, making them essentially a sharecropper on the platform; or 2. invested in almost exclusively by a single bigcorp publisher, making the studio essentially a secret marque of that publisher for projects they don't want associated with their regular brand image. Many of the games that later make it to Steam, were originally funded by either one of the platform owners, or by a bigcorp publisher.
- tomnipotent 5y ago
  Changing the definition still doesn't change how many indie studios are out there. There's been zero evidence here that there isn't a healthy indie market, but plenty that there is. > Many of the games that later make it to Steam, were originally funded by either one of the platform owners My account is full of games (including top sellers) with no such arrangements. And I have more access to such games than at any time in history.
  - derefr 5y ago
    These indie companies are no more independent (the meaning of the word "indie") than a person hawking MLM products is independent. They're effective employees of a bigcorp — with all the same danger of being "fired" by their publisher at any time for misbehavior. > What evidence? My account is full of games (including top sellers) with no such arrangements. Ignore indie games that have been on Steam for years and years, or that only get published on Steam and no other platforms; these are the exceptions to the rule (despite this set containing some of the largest hits by sales volume.) While there are studios that sell only on Steam and other low-barrier-to-entry channels, 99% of them don't last more than a year or two, because selling only on Steam is leaving almost all your money on the ground. There's a reason that many of these games don't get support updates any more and won't run on e.g. macOS or Linux after any major OS update, despite originally intending support for those platforms: the studio didn't survive. And while there are indie studios that eventually take their console-exclusive game over to Steam, it's often still published by the publisher on Steam. Take a careful look at the Steam catalog page for the "publisher" field. If there is one? That's who's making the direct revenue on the game sales. Like the publisher of a book. The "author" — the studio — is only getting a commission. There are a few indie studios who manage to "earn out" their deals with publishers, and take over their own Steam pages (though not usually their console marketing rights — the platform owners don't like dealing with the long tail of self-publishers, they much prefer well-known bigcorps as marketing partners.)

baby 5y ago

Do you have a switch? I can’t make sense of your comment honestly

ianhawes 5y ago

> The group of truly indie studios is dwindling unfortunately. This is inaccurate. I don't have the stats to back it up, but the power of Unity Engine and Unreal Engine have effectively created an indie game developer renaissance. One of my favorite games at the moment, Hell Let Loose, is published by an indie studio that started in 2017 as a Kickstarter project. They launched their PC version last summer and successfully launched an Xbox port this past fall. It is objectively a better (but harder) game than COD WWII or Battlefield V, both of which are considered AAA titles and have had hundreds of millions put into them for development. Combine that with the lower barrier to entry with the discoverability of games on Steam and Xbox marketplaces and you have a very hot market. Oh, and consumers play video games now more than ever.

vymague 5y ago
Inaccurate in what way? Indie studios getting bought by Tencent is true.
vintermann 5y ago
Yes, the problem is that the reliance on these few engines is a worrying form of concentration in itself. Especially for the Unreal engine, which is used aggressively to push the Epic games store. How independent are they really when they're so dependent on a single software vendor? And, to my eyes, Epic uses openly monopolistic practices: they drop the license fee for the engine if you use their game store.
kevinventullo 5y ago
Ironically, HLL is a lot closer to the original BF1942 than any other game I’ve seen recently.
lowbloodsugar 5y ago
I'm having the opposite experience. I dropped probably $400 on games over the holidays and found three games I wanted to play. I used to make games, so I hated when people used GameStop because it avoided the developers getting any money. But now I'm thinking that GameStop would be great, because most all but three of the games I bought just suck. These online-purchase-only systems frankly need a one-hour refund policy. So many games where the controls are just jank (like 100% janky). Like everyone looked at Celeste and thought "This game is good because it's hard" instead of "This game is good because it rewards skill". I'd rather play Celeste and Returnal than these other utter wastes of hard drive. I only made it through Unsighted because you can make yourself invulnerable: fun story, fun ideas, fun levels, jank combat. Bah humbug.

skazazes 5y ago

Valheim, developed by a new indie studio of 5 people, just won PC Gamer's GOTY