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I agree, but I still consider it a step up to what we had before. There's always been institutions whom people are told to trust. For a thousand years it was th

I agree, but I still consider it a step up to what we had before. There's always been institutions whom people are told to trust. For a thousand years it was the church. I think for most people to trust credentialed scientists from government institutions is a vast step up, even if they have sorely disappointed during this pandemic.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
larryflint 5y ago
That's a humbling point. Thank you.
zx85wes 5y ago
You mean the people who told us not to wear masks? I trust science, but that doesn't mean I trust every scientist.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  If you really trusted science, you would trust that information and knowledge is dynamic and they don’t always have the right answer at the beginning, just an answer that gets changed over time as more knowledge pours in. I’m guessing you prefer your scientists to be absolutely right at the beginning right?
  - simiones 5y ago
    Anthony Fauci has explicitly admitted on camera that the reason "masks don't work" was promoted to the public initially was to conserve PPE for the highest-risk health workers [0]. It was NOT a case of the science changing: > So, why weren't we told to wear masks in the beginning? > "Well, the reason for that is that we were concerned the public health community, and many people were saying this, were concerned that it was at a time when personal protective equipment, including the N95 masks and the surgical masks, were in very short supply. And we wanted to make sure that the people namely, the health care workers, who were brave enough to put themselves in a harm way, to take care of people who you know were infected with the coronavirus and the danger of them getting infected." [0] https://www.thestreet.com/video/dr-fauci-masks-changing-directive-coronavirus https://www.thestreet.com/video/dr-fauci-masks-changing-dire...
    - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
      But they explicitly told us that at the time: “don’t rush out and buy masks, we don’t have enough for healthcare workers as it is, you don’t need them more than they do.” The right just took some sound bites and excerpted the rest of the discussion to “prove” that Fauci was lying, while everyone else was rolling their eyes, and still are. People hear the things that support the story they want to believe, and then ignore everything else that doesn’t support their preferred narrative. You don’t need a PhD in psych to realize that.
      - pasquinelli 5y ago
        that's not how i remember it.
      - mandmandam 5y ago
        scotty79 5y ago
        Remember their boss was Trump who didn't believe it's a thing at all.
        mandmandam 5y ago
        https://www.huffpost.com/entry/scientists-react-to-cdc-coronavirus-airborne_n_5f6a0070c5b655acbc701b2c https://www.huffpost.com/entry/scientists-react-to-cdc-coron... https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fauci-said-masks-not-really-effective-in-keeping-out-virus-email-reveals/ar-AAKCZ0c https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fauci-said-masks-not-reall... Some trivially obtainable evidence from mainstream outlets, for the silent downvoters trying to memory hole these facts.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - finite_jest 5y ago
        I think you are being a tad too generous here. That wasn't the explicit messaging. Public health officials and experts did in fact lie and palter in that case. Part of the messaging was explicitly "masks are not effective in preventing general public from catching COIVD" [1] You could reasonably see it as a "noble lie", however. The whole thing is also complicated by the fact that science on surgical masks etc. wasn't (and isn't) that clear. During the 2009 H1N1 flu, CDC also recommended against face masks for ordinary people. See this SSC article for more on that. [2] [1] e.g. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-cdc-says-americans-dont-have-to-wear-facemasks-because-of-coronavirus-2020-01-30 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-cdc-says-americans-don... [2]: https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/03/23/face-masks-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/03/23/face-masks-much-more-t... (Scott, like you, is also sometimes a bit too generous :-))
  - pvaldes 5y ago
    The problem often is that some people assume that scientists are priests in a religion called science.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

larryflint 5y ago

That's a humbling point. Thank you.

zx85wes 5y ago

You mean the people who told us not to wear masks? I trust science, but that doesn't mean I trust every scientist.

seanmcdirmid 5y ago
If you really trusted science, you would trust that information and knowledge is dynamic and they don’t always have the right answer at the beginning, just an answer that gets changed over time as more knowledge pours in. I’m guessing you prefer your scientists to be absolutely right at the beginning right?
- simiones 5y ago
  Anthony Fauci has explicitly admitted on camera that the reason "masks don't work" was promoted to the public initially was to conserve PPE for the highest-risk health workers [0]. It was NOT a case of the science changing: > So, why weren't we told to wear masks in the beginning? > "Well, the reason for that is that we were concerned the public health community, and many people were saying this, were concerned that it was at a time when personal protective equipment, including the N95 masks and the surgical masks, were in very short supply. And we wanted to make sure that the people namely, the health care workers, who were brave enough to put themselves in a harm way, to take care of people who you know were infected with the coronavirus and the danger of them getting infected." [0] https://www.thestreet.com/video/dr-fauci-masks-changing-directive-coronavirus https://www.thestreet.com/video/dr-fauci-masks-changing-dire...
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    But they explicitly told us that at the time: “don’t rush out and buy masks, we don’t have enough for healthcare workers as it is, you don’t need them more than they do.” The right just took some sound bites and excerpted the rest of the discussion to “prove” that Fauci was lying, while everyone else was rolling their eyes, and still are. People hear the things that support the story they want to believe, and then ignore everything else that doesn’t support their preferred narrative. You don’t need a PhD in psych to realize that.
    - pasquinelli 5y ago
      that's not how i remember it.
    - mandmandam 5y ago
      - scotty79 5y ago
        Remember their boss was Trump who didn't believe it's a thing at all.
      - mandmandam 5y ago
        https://www.huffpost.com/entry/scientists-react-to-cdc-coronavirus-airborne_n_5f6a0070c5b655acbc701b2c https://www.huffpost.com/entry/scientists-react-to-cdc-coron... https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fauci-said-masks-not-really-effective-in-keeping-out-virus-email-reveals/ar-AAKCZ0c https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fauci-said-masks-not-reall... Some trivially obtainable evidence from mainstream outlets, for the silent downvoters trying to memory hole these facts.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - finite_jest 5y ago
      I think you are being a tad too generous here. That wasn't the explicit messaging. Public health officials and experts did in fact lie and palter in that case. Part of the messaging was explicitly "masks are not effective in preventing general public from catching COIVD" [1] You could reasonably see it as a "noble lie", however. The whole thing is also complicated by the fact that science on surgical masks etc. wasn't (and isn't) that clear. During the 2009 H1N1 flu, CDC also recommended against face masks for ordinary people. See this SSC article for more on that. [2] [1] e.g. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-cdc-says-americans-dont-have-to-wear-facemasks-because-of-coronavirus-2020-01-30 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-cdc-says-americans-don... [2]: https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/03/23/face-masks-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/03/23/face-masks-much-more-t... (Scott, like you, is also sometimes a bit too generous :-))
- pvaldes 5y ago
  The problem often is that some people assume that scientists are priests in a religion called science.