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Agree. Kids need to learn logical thought processes and problem solving. They don't need to know how to 'program'. How do we even know 'programming' will be a

by mibbit 15y ago

Agree. Kids need to learn logical thought processes and problem solving. They don't need to know how to 'program'. How do we even know 'programming' will be a relevant skill in 30 years time? Buy every kid of 3 a tub of Lego bricks (Not a 'set'). That would go a long way to getting them thinking, problem solving, and building stuff. And don't get me started on the "There aren't enough females in programming" BS rolleyes FWIW, I would happily sign against this petition. I do not think teaching kids to 'program' at school so early is worthwhile. Programming is an extremely niche career, and anyone who is interested in it can easily learn. You're likely to bore 90% because they're not interested in learning programming, and the other 10% will have learnt it all at home years ago and will also be bored. </rant>

guillaume_a 15y ago
>Buy every kid of 3 a tub of Lego bricks (Not a 'set'). That would go a long way to getting them thinking, problem solving, and building stuff. That's a really weak argument. Buy every kids Lego, and all teaching problems would be solved? >And don't get me started on the "There aren't enough females in programming" BS rolleyes Oh, please get started. >Programming is an extremely niche career, and anyone who is interested in it can easily learn. Being a software engineer/developer is. Knowing how to program is just as useful as basic math or writing- anyone can benefit from it. >You're likely to bore 90% because they're not interested in learning programming, "Don't teach math or english, you're likely to bore 90% because they're not interested". Getting the kids interested is part of teaching. Have you ever taught K-12?
_corbett 15y ago
There aren't enough good programmers. Period. In fact there also aren't enough programmers, period.
- pointyhat 15y ago
  Personally, I think there are plenty of good programmers. Unfortunately there are a lot of problems which people like to solve over and over again...
  - _corbett 15y ago
    you should see some of the code that smart, hardworking and logical people end up writing in the sciences because they are 10 years behind in programming education and experience. then the next generation of PhD students rolls in and rinse, repeat.
- mibbit 15y ago
  Perhaps if more programmers were working on a solution to cancer, instead of a social webapp to allow people to share photos of their dogs... Not to mention the number of programmers who waste their time creating new languages and frameworks. Then they spend years rewriting everything in node.js or whatever the fashion of the day is. I'd say there's more than enough programmers.
  - pointyhat 15y ago
    Give this man a medal. This is exactly the problem with this planet.
  - saturn 15y ago
    > who waste their time creating new languages and frameworks Well that's just laughable, and says more about yourself than any of these allegedly offending third parties. There has been tremendous progress in both frameworks and languages over the last decade. If you can't see that then, well, I don't really know what else to say, other than to perhaps get off your lawn.
    - pointyhat 15y ago
      But 99.9% of these innovations don't help the world. They help a small subset of a small subset of a small subset of problems from a small subset of a small subset of a small subset of society. Compare to if someone worked out how to stop Neurofibromatosis dead in its tracks for example (a condition my youngest daughter has), they'd give 1 in 3000 people a better chance. People get a Jesus complex because they build a tool that a vocal minority uses.
      - saturn 15y ago
        Even if we accept your claim that only 1 in 1000 inventions help the world, which I think is pessimistic, that's still progress. What would you rather people do? Not invent? A programmer writing a new framework might not directly help cure Neurofibromatosis but they might make it slightly easier for another programmer, which is then inspired to work on his program, which saves a medical researcher a few minutes and gives him the time he needs to have his breakthrough. Or maybe a better search result gave him what he needs. Technology is cumulative. Criticising people because they're not working on your favoured project is pretty lame.

by mibbit 15y ago

guillaume_a 15y ago

>Buy every kid of 3 a tub of Lego bricks (Not a 'set'). That would go a long way to getting them thinking, problem solving, and building stuff. That's a really weak argument. Buy every kids Lego, and all teaching problems would be solved? >And don't get me started on the "There aren't enough females in programming" BS rolleyes Oh, please get started. >Programming is an extremely niche career, and anyone who is interested in it can easily learn. Being a software engineer/developer is. Knowing how to program is just as useful as basic math or writing- anyone can benefit from it. >You're likely to bore 90% because they're not interested in learning programming, "Don't teach math or english, you're likely to bore 90% because they're not interested". Getting the kids interested is part of teaching. Have you ever taught K-12?

_corbett 15y ago

There aren't enough good programmers. Period. In fact there also aren't enough programmers, period.

pointyhat 15y ago
Personally, I think there are plenty of good programmers. Unfortunately there are a lot of problems which people like to solve over and over again...
- _corbett 15y ago
  you should see some of the code that smart, hardworking and logical people end up writing in the sciences because they are 10 years behind in programming education and experience. then the next generation of PhD students rolls in and rinse, repeat.
mibbit 15y ago
Perhaps if more programmers were working on a solution to cancer, instead of a social webapp to allow people to share photos of their dogs... Not to mention the number of programmers who waste their time creating new languages and frameworks. Then they spend years rewriting everything in node.js or whatever the fashion of the day is. I'd say there's more than enough programmers.
- pointyhat 15y ago
  Give this man a medal. This is exactly the problem with this planet.
- saturn 15y ago
  > who waste their time creating new languages and frameworks Well that's just laughable, and says more about yourself than any of these allegedly offending third parties. There has been tremendous progress in both frameworks and languages over the last decade. If you can't see that then, well, I don't really know what else to say, other than to perhaps get off your lawn.
  - pointyhat 15y ago
    But 99.9% of these innovations don't help the world. They help a small subset of a small subset of a small subset of problems from a small subset of a small subset of a small subset of society. Compare to if someone worked out how to stop Neurofibromatosis dead in its tracks for example (a condition my youngest daughter has), they'd give 1 in 3000 people a better chance. People get a Jesus complex because they build a tool that a vocal minority uses.
    - saturn 15y ago
      Even if we accept your claim that only 1 in 1000 inventions help the world, which I think is pessimistic, that's still progress. What would you rather people do? Not invent? A programmer writing a new framework might not directly help cure Neurofibromatosis but they might make it slightly easier for another programmer, which is then inspired to work on his program, which saves a medical researcher a few minutes and gives him the time he needs to have his breakthrough. Or maybe a better search result gave him what he needs. Technology is cumulative. Criticising people because they're not working on your favoured project is pretty lame.