5 ms·

We need “dumb” infrastructure again, that you can simply pay for with few strings attached, where the provider cannot fiddle with things at all, leaving enforce

We need “dumb” infrastructure again, that you can simply pay for with few strings attached, where the provider cannot fiddle with things at all, leaving enforcement to other authorities. We build roads; yes, those roads might be used to transport stolen goods but the road builder doesn’t get to sit there and inspect every vehicle (and accuse the wrong people sometimes and ban them from driving). It’s just so damned complicated now and I don’t know how it got that way.

sid-ant 5y ago
I've again started using a usb-c thumb drive in place of google drive. It's extremely convenient and safe from big brother eyes.
RIMR 5y ago
That "dumb" infrastructure still exists. You can host your own file server, either on your own hardware, or in the cloud. Use of these consumer-grade cloud services comes with pitfalls. I see no utility in pretending that alternatives don't exist though, because they're pretty abundant.
- sovietmudkipz 5y ago
  Is there a source that breaks down this sort of stuff on your own hardware in a beginner friendly or at least explicit way? One hesitation I have to exposing something public that may not be secure, compromising my home network. It’s intimidating and holds me back, a bit.
  - BoysenberryPi 5y ago
    I'll second this. I'm pretty techno-savvy if I do say so myself but I haven't the slightest when it comes to self-hosting and security concerns also prevent me from doing it.
- umvi 5y ago
  > That "dumb" infrastructure still exists. You can host your own file server, either on your own hardware, or in the cloud. Can you though? I would consider AWS "in the cloud" yet they will give you the boot if they disagree with you morally[0]. Same with Cloudflare[1]. So it seems even infrastructure-level cloud offerings are prone to moral arbitration. Hosting on your own hardware is the only option, but even then... I don't see any reason twitter mobs couldn't pressure Comcast or whoever is connecting your hardware to the internet to cut you off. [0] https://telecoms.com/508138/aws-banning-of-parler-exposes-the-precariousness-of-the-public-cloud/ https://telecoms.com/508138/aws-banning-of-parler-exposes-th... [1] https://blog.cloudflare.com/why-we-terminated-daily-stormer/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/why-we-terminated-daily-stormer/
  - sieabahlpark 5y ago
  - bigtech-1984 5y ago
    Your best bet is probably to pursue hosting in another country with better freedoms.
    - omoikane 5y ago
      You could also declare yourself to be an independent nation and start a hosting company: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HavenCo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HavenCo But this is probably not your best bet.
    - Macha 5y ago
      The best you're going to get is different freedoms. Russia might have free speech for nazis, but not for Putin critics, for example.
  - aluminum96 5y ago
    > they will give you the boot if they disagree with you morally I don't think this is accurate. They pretty much only ban you if you're exposing them to legal liability.
- kypro 5y ago
  You say this as if it is easy or inexpensive to do well... If it was why would the service even exist in the first place? Surely everyone would just do it themselves. I also don't think you would be arguing that people bothered about WhatsApp or iOS tracking them should just create their own messaging app or mobile OS. The vast majority of software is not just difficult do yourself, but almost completely infeasible. In fact it's hard to even think of any software I use regularly which I as a experienced software engineer could easily build myself, let alone an average user concerned about this stuff...
  - je42 5y ago
    Even it if was open source, just deploying something as convenient as google drive is a challenge. i.e. something that works on iOS , Android and Web + has proper access management and has enough storage (including automatic backup).
- ravenstine 5y ago
  lol at all the downvoting. You're totally right. Depending on one's standards and expertise, yes, there are alternatives to the mainstream dumping grounds for your files. The most basic is to just store files on external drives. This is what I do because, most of the time, I'm not actively sharing or using all my photos and downloads. I've scattered them between drives for well over a decade and only had a problem when one of my magnetic drives began to fail, but I ended up not losing anything. Even if I lost all my photos and stuff I really wouldn't care that much. That's why I can't be arsed to trust The Google or Zuckerborg or whomever with my files or using Dropbox. I'm more likely to wake up one day to be hard locked out of all my Google accounts than to lose anything meaningful because of physical on-premises storage. There's also network drives, and plenty of off-the-shelf ones exist. My parents have one and it's exactly what you'd think; a device with a ton of storage that's accessible through a Dropbox-like web interface. And if you're really geeky, you can hack together a way to shove files into S3 or whatever storage service of choice. Yes, the average person won't have the motivation or wherewithal to do anything besides my first option, but that's really the kind of thing you'll always get by being average. And obviously those who believe they need all the bells and whistles of Dropbox or Google Drive may also believe there are no practical alternatives outside of Silicon Valley Big Tech, in which case it's entirely up to them how comfortable they are with that. Personally, I would rather rely on services as little as possible.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
nivenkos 5y ago
If the road builder was held legally liable for everything on their roads you can be sure they would do.
acjohnson55 5y ago
You can store your data encrypted. I use Cryptomator on top of Dropbox for keeping my personal files in the cloud and synced between systems. It works on any online storage that presents itself as a drive to your OS. You lose all of value-added functionality of the cloud storage application, though, like the web interface and the ability to share.
- jjav 5y ago
  > You can store your data encrypted. You can, I can (actually, I run my own file servers, even better). Average person can't (won't even be aware they should). We could say let's educate people (yes, let's). But really, infrastructure should be neutrally available to everyone like roads or the old POTS network. It can only be achieved through regulation, since these companies will always be self-serving at every step otherwise.
- traceroute66 5y ago
  > You lose all of value-added functionality of the cloud storage application, though, like the web interface and the ability to share. Only because you chose the wrong solution. ;-) Look at Tresorit[1] instead. [1]https://tresorit.com/ https://tresorit.com/
  - llampx 5y ago
    Using "Swiss privacy" gets my hackles up. And what is with the website hijacking my back button? If I click on "Individual" at the top, I can't go back from that page.
    - traceroute66 5y ago
      Well its a million times better than better than "I'm Dropbox/Google etc. , a US jurisdiction company, with servers in the US, trust me (wink wink) , I will never give Uncle Sam your data"
      - llampx 5y ago
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ssss11 5y ago
Yes, this! It’s because cloud should have been just custodianship of the data in order to funnel it into their application but it was all too easy for these companies to want to profit further by prying on the data, monetising the data, curating the data and ultimately taking control away from the owner of the data.
vkou 5y ago
Not going to happen in a world where linking to illegal content makes you legally liable for it. Instead of grousing about Google or AWS or Cloudflare, you'd be grousing about Comcast. And Cloudlfare, because they'd still be in the picture, with all the same incentives.

sid-ant 5y ago

I've again started using a usb-c thumb drive in place of google drive. It's extremely convenient and safe from big brother eyes.

RIMR 5y ago

That "dumb" infrastructure still exists. You can host your own file server, either on your own hardware, or in the cloud. Use of these consumer-grade cloud services comes with pitfalls. I see no utility in pretending that alternatives don't exist though, because they're pretty abundant.

sovietmudkipz 5y ago
Is there a source that breaks down this sort of stuff on your own hardware in a beginner friendly or at least explicit way? One hesitation I have to exposing something public that may not be secure, compromising my home network. It’s intimidating and holds me back, a bit.
- BoysenberryPi 5y ago
  I'll second this. I'm pretty techno-savvy if I do say so myself but I haven't the slightest when it comes to self-hosting and security concerns also prevent me from doing it.
umvi 5y ago
> That "dumb" infrastructure still exists. You can host your own file server, either on your own hardware, or in the cloud. Can you though? I would consider AWS "in the cloud" yet they will give you the boot if they disagree with you morally[0]. Same with Cloudflare[1]. So it seems even infrastructure-level cloud offerings are prone to moral arbitration. Hosting on your own hardware is the only option, but even then... I don't see any reason twitter mobs couldn't pressure Comcast or whoever is connecting your hardware to the internet to cut you off. [0] https://telecoms.com/508138/aws-banning-of-parler-exposes-the-precariousness-of-the-public-cloud/ https://telecoms.com/508138/aws-banning-of-parler-exposes-th... [1] https://blog.cloudflare.com/why-we-terminated-daily-stormer/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/why-we-terminated-daily-stormer/
- sieabahlpark 5y ago
- bigtech-1984 5y ago
  Your best bet is probably to pursue hosting in another country with better freedoms.
  - omoikane 5y ago
    You could also declare yourself to be an independent nation and start a hosting company: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HavenCo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HavenCo But this is probably not your best bet.
  - Macha 5y ago
    The best you're going to get is different freedoms. Russia might have free speech for nazis, but not for Putin critics, for example.
- aluminum96 5y ago
  > they will give you the boot if they disagree with you morally I don't think this is accurate. They pretty much only ban you if you're exposing them to legal liability.
kypro 5y ago
You say this as if it is easy or inexpensive to do well... If it was why would the service even exist in the first place? Surely everyone would just do it themselves. I also don't think you would be arguing that people bothered about WhatsApp or iOS tracking them should just create their own messaging app or mobile OS. The vast majority of software is not just difficult do yourself, but almost completely infeasible. In fact it's hard to even think of any software I use regularly which I as a experienced software engineer could easily build myself, let alone an average user concerned about this stuff...
- je42 5y ago
  Even it if was open source, just deploying something as convenient as google drive is a challenge. i.e. something that works on iOS , Android and Web + has proper access management and has enough storage (including automatic backup).
ravenstine 5y ago
lol at all the downvoting. You're totally right. Depending on one's standards and expertise, yes, there are alternatives to the mainstream dumping grounds for your files. The most basic is to just store files on external drives. This is what I do because, most of the time, I'm not actively sharing or using all my photos and downloads. I've scattered them between drives for well over a decade and only had a problem when one of my magnetic drives began to fail, but I ended up not losing anything. Even if I lost all my photos and stuff I really wouldn't care that much. That's why I can't be arsed to trust The Google or Zuckerborg or whomever with my files or using Dropbox. I'm more likely to wake up one day to be hard locked out of all my Google accounts than to lose anything meaningful because of physical on-premises storage. There's also network drives, and plenty of off-the-shelf ones exist. My parents have one and it's exactly what you'd think; a device with a ton of storage that's accessible through a Dropbox-like web interface. And if you're really geeky, you can hack together a way to shove files into S3 or whatever storage service of choice. Yes, the average person won't have the motivation or wherewithal to do anything besides my first option, but that's really the kind of thing you'll always get by being average. And obviously those who believe they need all the bells and whistles of Dropbox or Google Drive may also believe there are no practical alternatives outside of Silicon Valley Big Tech, in which case it's entirely up to them how comfortable they are with that. Personally, I would rather rely on services as little as possible.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

nivenkos 5y ago

If the road builder was held legally liable for everything on their roads you can be sure they would do.

acjohnson55 5y ago

You can store your data encrypted. I use Cryptomator on top of Dropbox for keeping my personal files in the cloud and synced between systems. It works on any online storage that presents itself as a drive to your OS. You lose all of value-added functionality of the cloud storage application, though, like the web interface and the ability to share.

jjav 5y ago
> You can store your data encrypted. You can, I can (actually, I run my own file servers, even better). Average person can't (won't even be aware they should). We could say let's educate people (yes, let's). But really, infrastructure should be neutrally available to everyone like roads or the old POTS network. It can only be achieved through regulation, since these companies will always be self-serving at every step otherwise.
traceroute66 5y ago
> You lose all of value-added functionality of the cloud storage application, though, like the web interface and the ability to share. Only because you chose the wrong solution. ;-) Look at Tresorit[1] instead. [1]https://tresorit.com/ https://tresorit.com/
- llampx 5y ago
  Using "Swiss privacy" gets my hackles up. And what is with the website hijacking my back button? If I click on "Individual" at the top, I can't go back from that page.
  - traceroute66 5y ago
    Well its a million times better than better than "I'm Dropbox/Google etc. , a US jurisdiction company, with servers in the US, trust me (wink wink) , I will never give Uncle Sam your data"
    - llampx 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

ssss11 5y ago

Yes, this! It’s because cloud should have been just custodianship of the data in order to funnel it into their application but it was all too easy for these companies to want to profit further by prying on the data, monetising the data, curating the data and ultimately taking control away from the owner of the data.

vkou 5y ago

Not going to happen in a world where linking to illegal content makes you legally liable for it. Instead of grousing about Google or AWS or Cloudflare, you'd be grousing about Comcast. And Cloudlfare, because they'd still be in the picture, with all the same incentives.