7 ms·

I'm surprised blacksmiths didn't cut to the top 10. Almost everyone would need some kind of metal tool(s) to do their job in medieval time.

josh8042 5y ago
Same, also surprised there how highly butcher ranks with baker not even in the to 10. I had the impression that meat was a luxury in Medieval times
- handrous 5y ago
  Maybe paying someone else to make your bread is even more luxurious. I wonder if people who ran communal ovens, where you bring your own dough ready-to-bake and then take it out after it cooks, were counted as "bakers".
- evanb 5y ago
  And who KNOWS where candlestick maker ranks!
WFHRenaissance 5y ago
Definitely a blacksmith in almost every city, but probably fewer blacksmiths per city than the other jobs. Metal tools are built to last, and are expensive, so it was probably often a low volume high cost kind of business where production could be covered by a minimal number of smiths.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  I bet most of a blacksmith's business was shoeing horses and making nails, not making tools.
- JackFr 5y ago
  They must have been quite prolific then. There's a reason Smith is the most common surname in the English speaking world.
  - cafard 5y ago
    According to Mencken's The American Language any metalworking job qualified one for the surname.
  - Ichthypresbyter 5y ago
    Note that when surnames came into existence, they were intended to distinguish their bearers from other people in the local area with the same first name. There's no point being called John English if you live in England and everyone else in your village whose name is John is also English, which is why the surnames English and England (and variants like Inglis) are more common in Scotland than in England. Similarly, Smith is a common surname because smiths, while relatively common, were rare enough that a given community was unlikely to have two with the same first name. There were almost certainly more shepherds than smiths in England when surnames started becoming heritable, but the surname Shepherd is less common.
  - bsza 5y ago
    Maybe it was such an honorable craft that people were more likely to name themselves after it compared to other trades?
    - mackinley 5y ago
      I have that surname but not for the reason that a blacksmith was in my family. My great grandparents took the name Smith at Ellis Island to Americanize themselves. I suspect this backstory is probably quite common in the US, especially amongst Irish and Italian immigrants in the late 18 to early 1900's.
  - c54 5y ago
    Ive heard the possibly apocryphal reason for this is that invading armies would kill or appropriate workers in other professions but keep around the trained blacksmiths working the forge and producing weapons and tools for war. Smiths survived the waves of conquerors.
    - automatic6131 5y ago
- bserge 5y ago
  If only they knew about planned obsolescence /s
- credit_guy 5y ago
  My Dad was born before WW2 in a village in Eastern Europe, which was probably closer to a medieval village than to a 21st century one. He told me that a blacksmith would ask for 3 plum trees to do a certain job, presumably in order to make charcoal. I don't think there was anything special about plum trees, other than the local availability: people were (and still are) growing plum trees in order to make spirits. Giving up 3 plum trees meant giving up the spirits you could get from them for six years until the new trees would grow to maturity. So, yes, you wouldn't go to the blacksmith very often, if you could help it.
  - dotancohen 5y ago
    Of extraordinary interest is the fact that the blacksmith made his own charcoal and presumably other consumables and tools. From whence his anvil? Would you mind sharing some more details, such as where was the village? This is exactly the type of history story that I enjoy telling my children. If you'd prefer to share privately, my Gmail username is the same as my HN username. Thank you!
    - thaumasiotes 5y ago
      > From whence his anvil? As to that specifically, I'd guess (based on not much) that he inherited it.
    - JackFr 5y ago
      > Of extraordinary interest is the fact that the blacksmith made his own charcoal True. In medieval Europe charcoal burner was typically a very specialized profession. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charcoal_burner#Medieval_charcoal_burners https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charcoal_burner#Medieval_charc... "During the Middle Ages, charcoal burners were ostracised. Their profession was considered dishonourable and they were frequently accused of evil practices. Even today there is a certain denigration of this former occupation."
      - apcragg 5y ago
        Both of those lines have no citation so while I wouldn't doubt it, that page seems unreliable.
bluGill 5y ago
Blacksmith wasn't a major job until the 1800s when industrial revolution made the job possible. In the 1800s a blacksmith should made nothing: everything was made in a factory and the blacksmith just did the final fitting or repair work. Sure they could and did do some custom decorative stuff, but only the rich could afford that. Before then a city might have a couple in employee of the noble to make armor or swords, but the common person did without, or handed down tools until they couldn't be used at all. In a village a blacksmith was a side job of a talented farmer, but it couldn't pay the bills as nobody could afford to buy much custom made metal.
- cafard 5y ago
  In Chaucer's Canterbury Tales there is a smith in the Miller's Tale, who worked on farming equipment: plow harness, shares, and coulters. (Unless my Middle English is more forgotten than I thought.)
- datameta 5y ago
  Sure there were self-learners that expanded their trade to supply others for coin. However blacksmithing was certainly a skilled artisan / tradesperson role from antiquity to medieval times that operated on an apprenticeship scheme. One often had to dedicate themselves to it exclusively.
- hef19898 5y ago
  Farming tools? Wood working rools? Tools for builders? All made a blacksmith of sorts. Those making arms and armor where a highly specialized bunch. That being said, arms manufacturing was a very well developed industry during tue middle ages. Including general contractors, cuttlers, in case of weapons that coordinated the work of the people making the blades, the handles, the scarbords and dis the heat treatment. If anything, the classic blacksmith went into decline during yhe industrial revolution. With tools, weapons and everyday stuff being mass produced in a factory somewhere.
  - zdragnar 5y ago
    Weren't bladesmiths a separate profession? I was under the impression that blacksmiths were your run of the mill iron workers, especially considering that a good blade could take far longer to produce than a blacksmith might be able to devote time to. Slapping a wedge of metal on a pole and calling it a pike could be done by anyone though, I suppose.
duxup 5y ago
My grandfather was a doctor in WWII and at one point traveled up through China and other places that had been heavily decimated / damaged / looted. I remember him talking about how access to a ship (even if over long distance) with a good machine shop was critical to just get locals up and running with basic metal tools for everyday use and medical uses. It reminded me of the importance of a local blacksmith and such.
gota 5y ago
On topic - I suggest the following blog post series: https://acoup.blog/2020/09/18/collections-iron-how-did-they-make-it-part-i-mining/ https://acoup.blog/2020/09/18/collections-iron-how-did-they-... I learned a lot about the production and manufacturing of metal (iron) items. If I recall correctly, for iron production, a lot of people are involved in obtaining the fuel (wood, ash, charcoal) and not so many blacksmiths are necessary

josh8042 5y ago

Same, also surprised there how highly butcher ranks with baker not even in the to 10. I had the impression that meat was a luxury in Medieval times

handrous 5y ago
Maybe paying someone else to make your bread is even more luxurious. I wonder if people who ran communal ovens, where you bring your own dough ready-to-bake and then take it out after it cooks, were counted as "bakers".
evanb 5y ago
And who KNOWS where candlestick maker ranks!

WFHRenaissance 5y ago

Definitely a blacksmith in almost every city, but probably fewer blacksmiths per city than the other jobs. Metal tools are built to last, and are expensive, so it was probably often a low volume high cost kind of business where production could be covered by a minimal number of smiths.

WalterBright 5y ago
I bet most of a blacksmith's business was shoeing horses and making nails, not making tools.
JackFr 5y ago
They must have been quite prolific then. There's a reason Smith is the most common surname in the English speaking world.
- cafard 5y ago
  According to Mencken's The American Language any metalworking job qualified one for the surname.
- Ichthypresbyter 5y ago
  Note that when surnames came into existence, they were intended to distinguish their bearers from other people in the local area with the same first name. There's no point being called John English if you live in England and everyone else in your village whose name is John is also English, which is why the surnames English and England (and variants like Inglis) are more common in Scotland than in England. Similarly, Smith is a common surname because smiths, while relatively common, were rare enough that a given community was unlikely to have two with the same first name. There were almost certainly more shepherds than smiths in England when surnames started becoming heritable, but the surname Shepherd is less common.
- bsza 5y ago
  Maybe it was such an honorable craft that people were more likely to name themselves after it compared to other trades?
  - mackinley 5y ago
    I have that surname but not for the reason that a blacksmith was in my family. My great grandparents took the name Smith at Ellis Island to Americanize themselves. I suspect this backstory is probably quite common in the US, especially amongst Irish and Italian immigrants in the late 18 to early 1900's.
- c54 5y ago
  Ive heard the possibly apocryphal reason for this is that invading armies would kill or appropriate workers in other professions but keep around the trained blacksmiths working the forge and producing weapons and tools for war. Smiths survived the waves of conquerors.
  - automatic6131 5y ago
bserge 5y ago
If only they knew about planned obsolescence /s
credit_guy 5y ago
My Dad was born before WW2 in a village in Eastern Europe, which was probably closer to a medieval village than to a 21st century one. He told me that a blacksmith would ask for 3 plum trees to do a certain job, presumably in order to make charcoal. I don't think there was anything special about plum trees, other than the local availability: people were (and still are) growing plum trees in order to make spirits. Giving up 3 plum trees meant giving up the spirits you could get from them for six years until the new trees would grow to maturity. So, yes, you wouldn't go to the blacksmith very often, if you could help it.
- dotancohen 5y ago
  Of extraordinary interest is the fact that the blacksmith made his own charcoal and presumably other consumables and tools. From whence his anvil? Would you mind sharing some more details, such as where was the village? This is exactly the type of history story that I enjoy telling my children. If you'd prefer to share privately, my Gmail username is the same as my HN username. Thank you!
  - thaumasiotes 5y ago
    > From whence his anvil? As to that specifically, I'd guess (based on not much) that he inherited it.
  - JackFr 5y ago
    > Of extraordinary interest is the fact that the blacksmith made his own charcoal True. In medieval Europe charcoal burner was typically a very specialized profession. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charcoal_burner#Medieval_charcoal_burners https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charcoal_burner#Medieval_charc... "During the Middle Ages, charcoal burners were ostracised. Their profession was considered dishonourable and they were frequently accused of evil practices. Even today there is a certain denigration of this former occupation."
    - apcragg 5y ago
      Both of those lines have no citation so while I wouldn't doubt it, that page seems unreliable.

bluGill 5y ago

Blacksmith wasn't a major job until the 1800s when industrial revolution made the job possible. In the 1800s a blacksmith should made nothing: everything was made in a factory and the blacksmith just did the final fitting or repair work. Sure they could and did do some custom decorative stuff, but only the rich could afford that. Before then a city might have a couple in employee of the noble to make armor or swords, but the common person did without, or handed down tools until they couldn't be used at all. In a village a blacksmith was a side job of a talented farmer, but it couldn't pay the bills as nobody could afford to buy much custom made metal.

cafard 5y ago
In Chaucer's Canterbury Tales there is a smith in the Miller's Tale, who worked on farming equipment: plow harness, shares, and coulters. (Unless my Middle English is more forgotten than I thought.)
datameta 5y ago
Sure there were self-learners that expanded their trade to supply others for coin. However blacksmithing was certainly a skilled artisan / tradesperson role from antiquity to medieval times that operated on an apprenticeship scheme. One often had to dedicate themselves to it exclusively.
hef19898 5y ago
Farming tools? Wood working rools? Tools for builders? All made a blacksmith of sorts. Those making arms and armor where a highly specialized bunch. That being said, arms manufacturing was a very well developed industry during tue middle ages. Including general contractors, cuttlers, in case of weapons that coordinated the work of the people making the blades, the handles, the scarbords and dis the heat treatment. If anything, the classic blacksmith went into decline during yhe industrial revolution. With tools, weapons and everyday stuff being mass produced in a factory somewhere.
- zdragnar 5y ago
  Weren't bladesmiths a separate profession? I was under the impression that blacksmiths were your run of the mill iron workers, especially considering that a good blade could take far longer to produce than a blacksmith might be able to devote time to. Slapping a wedge of metal on a pole and calling it a pike could be done by anyone though, I suppose.

duxup 5y ago

My grandfather was a doctor in WWII and at one point traveled up through China and other places that had been heavily decimated / damaged / looted. I remember him talking about how access to a ship (even if over long distance) with a good machine shop was critical to just get locals up and running with basic metal tools for everyday use and medical uses. It reminded me of the importance of a local blacksmith and such.

gota 5y ago

On topic - I suggest the following blog post series: https://acoup.blog/2020/09/18/collections-iron-how-did-they-make-it-part-i-mining/ https://acoup.blog/2020/09/18/collections-iron-how-did-they-... I learned a lot about the production and manufacturing of metal (iron) items. If I recall correctly, for iron production, a lot of people are involved in obtaining the fuel (wood, ash, charcoal) and not so many blacksmiths are necessary