7 ms·
Blood sugar level follows perceived time rather than actual time in diabetics
- mjevans 5y agoThis seems to indicate that studies should be designed to investigate the effectiveness of diets with respect to expectations and future plans; since the system is complex and literally based on the subject's memories and expectations of future events.
- quitit 5y agoWith surgeries on the eye the patient selection criteria extends well beyond the measurable aspects of their vision. Instead the criteria is highly dependent on the patient's expectations and second to that that their willingness to work with the vision they receive. Notwithstanding physical limitations it's this difference in attitude which results in real world, measurable, improvements in the patient's visual acuity. Outside of the op space, a similar-ish issue exists with multifocal glasses (and contact lenses) - these technologies work, but how well they work is highly dependent on the patient's expectations.
- lettergram 5y agoI’m inclined to believe this is an inaccurate study. I’d really like to see it replicated. That said, assuming it’s accurate — that’s kind of an amazing physiological response to perceived time. I wonder if other systems can be impacted or what would cause this particular system to be impacted? I could see people’s metabolism changing based on perception(s). So many questions, but an exciting and interesting area.
- staplers 5y agoStress causes inflammation of the stomach and an increase in stomach acid production. Seems closely related so doesn't surprise me.
- quitit 5y agoI feel like it's one of these studies where there is deep importance not to read more into the conclusion than what it states. So while expectation of time would be a factor, it wouldn't be the only factor and that alone couldn't break out of the physical constraints of the system. I think hunger is comparable: one can be hungry over time as a result of the natural changes in their body, or they can become hungry merely by looking at appetising food. I think psychology can play a useful, but complicated role.
- Lhiw 5y agoThe brain seems to have control over more of the body than we thought. Is there potential treatments that could result from this? I wonder if type one also exhibits this trait?
- kayodelycaon 5y agoThe brain and body are very much connected. Being bipolar, I am keenly aware of this. Depression is a lot like being severely sick. Even if you manage to keep up exercise and diet, physical health takes a dive. Mania… everything goes into overdrive. The necessary repair work isn’t being done, even if you get enough sleep. Eating the wrong food or too much exertion can trigger episodes. Mental health is very much tied to physical health. And vice-versa.
- tudorw 5y agowe, not I, you? jeez the quality of discourse on here sux
- guywhocodes 5y agoI only read the abstract and it suggests a direction of causation that the experiment does not give. I'll read this in full when I have time but I would be very surprised if the causation is not completely reverse of what is suggested.
- beowulfey 5y agoWhat are you suggesting the causation is exactly? That blood sugar levels affect our perception of time?
- ianmcgowan 5y agoThat doesn't sound impossible. Like a CPU running slower when the power is janky, there's something appealing to the thought that we experience the passage of time differently based on internal physical processes. There's the trope of "time standing still" when some intense experience is happening - perhaps flooding the system with adrenaline has the opposite effect and speeds up perceived time?
- banana_giraffe 5y agoAssuming this can be replicated, it'd be interesting to know if knowing the clock is running fast is enough to offset whatever's going on here. I'd also be curious to know what impact the speed of the clock had on game play, did it impact their ability to play in any measurable way?
- jonmc12 5y agoPaper is from 2016. Huberman Labs has a great roundup (Nov '21) of the research on time perception - and several other related series on dopamine. The title of OP was not surprising after listening. https://hubermanlab.com/time-perception-and-entrainment-by-dopamine-serotonin-and-hormones/ https://hubermanlab.com/time-perception-and-entrainment-by-d...
- CTDOCodebases 5y agoI thought of this when reading the heading. I remember hearing ages ago that artificial sweeteners can kick someone out of ketosis sometimes and this podcast gave a good explanation of it.
- hirundo 5y agoSuggestion works on taste buds too. In the nineties I had a thing for salsa and ate it most days at the office over things I steamed in the microwave. But I ate the mild salsas and couldn't tolerate the hot stuff. Still can't. So my boss decides to spice it up a bit, and mixes in some hot salsa. I didn't notice. Each day he gradually added more until it was all the hot stuff. I didn't notice. He went out and bought hotter stuff. For some reason the whole office was watching me when I made some quiet comment about the mild salsa being hotter than it used to be. They thought that was pretty funny. But I really didn't notice. If you can lie to the tongue, why not the liver?
- 1cvmask 5y agoYour story "proves" all the studies with sommeliers where they duped them into rating white wines (with red food coloring) as fancy red wines. All the sommeliers failed the blind tests. In fact all those studies showed was that the taste of wine stemmed primarily from the perception of the bottle rather than the actual taste.
- darkerside 5y agoWhy should red and white wines taste so distinguishably different anyway? Because one is red colored and one is white? So what? Seems like your contempt here falls prey to the same biases as the sommeliers. Of course, you're not supposed to be an expert. But still, seems like a hypocritical thing to make fun of someone else for.
- Niksko 5y agoBecause there is a fundamental difference in how they're made: red wines spend more time in contact with grape skins, while white wines don't. Grape skins contain tannins and other compounds that end up in the wine, and humans can perceive these compounds. You might question whether there is enough difference to warrant the perceived difference in flavor, but there are definitely quantitatively measurable differences in composition of typical red and white wines that would lead you to posit that they would taste different.
- monkeybutton 5y agoWhat happens if someone with diabetes takes LSD?
- crubier 5y agoNegative blood sugar levels
- AnthonBerg 5y agoThat’s an interesting question. Very. Serotonin is involved in all of it. The perception of time. As well as insulin secretion and blood glucose control, directly. As well as inflammation, which is a big part of diabetes, as well as in psychedelics – serotonin receptor 5-HT2A activation is immunomodulatory; It reduces inflammation.
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- yosito 5y agoWhat if perceived time is actually following blood sugar levels, and not the other way around?
- wutbrodo 5y agoThe article is worth skimming, or at least the abstract They didn't rely on the participants' subjective perception of time passing, but manipulated it through means that can't possibly be downstream of the subjects' blood sugar. > Participants’ perception of time was manipulated by having them refer to clocks that were either accurate or altered to run fast or slow
- d--b 5y agoAh they should have asked the different groups to change game at varying intervals. Now they can’t rule out that switching games faster is the cause for more sugar burning.
- jablongo 5y agoThis makes sense. To be clear, perceived time is not directly affecting blood glucose, it is affecting speeds of digestive breakdown and/or insulin secretion rates (most type-2s still secrete insulin). Interesting that this study was even run on diabetics at all (as opposed to euglycemic people) - not sure what the utility is there besides them being familiar with continuous glucose monitors.
- Talanes 5y ago>Participants were instructed to record their BGLs before and after every meal and to complete a daily blood glucose change chart for a week before the experiment. For one, I imagine getting a group of people with no history of monitoring their blood glucose to accurately track it over a week would be tricky.
- jablongo 5y agoYea true that’s a bit more hands on. I was thinking that they had used CGMs.
- Xen0byte 5y agoOP follows Andrew Huberman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IWDAqodDas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IWDAqodDas :)
- Glench 5y agoIt gets much crazier. Here's a study in Nature showing "Glucose metabolism responds to perceived sugar intake more than actual sugar intake": https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-72501-w?mc_cid=2b33d59ff8&mc_eid=e358e73db6 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-72501-w?mc_cid=2b...
- hamilyon2 5y agoThe idea is a bit too revolutionary to be fully understood by current generation. It breaks hadware/software model of living organisms. The implications might be so huge, no one today can imagine them. We really need to teach those things in school now, so that our children do not reject them reflexively as voodoo and unscientific.
- cromka 5y ago2023 hottest career path: "Insulin mindfulness coach".
- jrootabega 5y agoI think people like to think of the brain/mind as a black hole/sink of the bodily processes and organs, but it has profound influence over them. Most obviously, there is fight or flight. But it's more subtle than that. The brain can influence inflammation in other parts of the body, which I can't back up right now, since it's just something I read in a science magazine a few years ago. Although here's something related about how the vagus nerve interacts with inflammation and metabolism: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4082307/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4082307/ Emotionally relevent hormones, the most obvious of which is cortisol, influence all kinds of bodily processes like hunger, metabolism, energy, etc. And one interesting one I can think of in my own life is bladder activity - ever notice how, if you're on a long trip, you can hold in your pee without even thinking about it, but as soon as you get home and head towards the bathroom, it's like your bladder is about to explode? Or how you can still get up and pee even if it doesn't feel like you need to? And I think many of us have probably had the experience where we got so wrapped up in an interesting and challenging task that we forgot to become hungry, and maybe even missed our opportunity to be hungry until the next day.
- dSebastien 5y agoSo people with type 2 diabetes should be advised to get bored more often to lower their glucose levels? :p
- lngnmn2 5y agoThere is no such thing as time in this context. It is an abstraction superimposed and assumed by an external observer. Molecular biology does not have notion of time, only phases of other cyclical processes which is a completely different "mechanical" notion.
- DiffEq 5y agoTime…is motion. A clock is just a standard measure of motion, not time itself. https://www.motionmountain.net/ https://www.motionmountain.net/
- swayvil 5y agoSuggestion-induced physiological phenomena like this are impressive and noteworthy, for sure. But consider the effects of suggestion upon the more malleable parts of a person. Your mind and opinion. Consider the powers of authority, conformity, marketing, indoctrination. Black is white. Up is down.
- monocasa 5y agoI guess I always figured that your 'clock rate' was linearly correlated with your overall metabolism usage up to a point.
- brador 5y agoThis could just be a simple stress response to the task ending.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- FeepingCreature 5y agoImportant note! > Another potential confounding factor concerns the imbalanced number of times each group switched video games. Participants switched games every 15 min, according to the clocks they were given, so participants in the fast clock group switched more frequently than participants in other groups. One might propose that the increased switching in the fast clock group might have led to greater activity and exertion, causing blood glucose to decline more rapidly. The switching process entailed loading up a different video game on a computer, which is not a particularly demanding task. Even so, we controlled for this, to a degree, by instructing participants to alert the experimenters when it was time to change games, at which point the experimenters performed the actual switching. No actual effort was required of participants to make the change, aside from alerting the experimenter. It seems implausible that the effort required to signal the experimenter at switching times could have played a significant role in the intergroup differences observed. They did not switch every 15 minutes! They switched every 15 fake minutes, ie. every 7 minutes in the fast group and every 30 minutes in the slow group. The paper waves this away, but I suspect that getting used to a new game takes more energy than they realize. A way to test this would be by varying the time that the last game is played, in order to measure blood sugar change during beginning or end of a play phase. If this is correct, consumption should be bigger at the start and lesser at the end of each phase, regardless of how long it actually is.
- notahacker 5y agoThe study suggests the context switching shouldnt have had much effect as the control group (who switched 6 times) had BGL decrease consistent with normal rest (so by extension those who switched only 3 times must have had lower than normal rates of BGL decrease at rest over the real life 90 minutes, which is potentially the most interesting part of the correlation they found) They also claim no effect on subjective reported stress level (but those who switched more times did report more stress, just not to a statistically significant degree...) Although the games were reportedly "easy" I do think it'd be interesting to see whether there were any meaningful differences in the approaches to the game and levels of performance of the different cohorts. And if they performed similarly but those on a slower "subjective timescale" received vastly more "reward" indicators like higher scores, "you wins" or proportions of a grid/map ticked off because they played each game for longer, that would also be a confounding factor
- stared 5y agoSo, it is sugar consumption per turn, rather than per time.