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Germany has legislation coming into effect in 2023 requiring credit/debit card readers on all new EV chargers: https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/new-ev-charg

Germany has legislation coming into effect in 2023 requiring credit/debit card readers on all new EV chargers: https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/new-ev-chargers-germany-must-be-equipped-debit-credit-card-readers https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/new-ev-chargers-germany...

arlcode 5y ago
IIRC that only requires an nfc capable credit card reader so still "waving a card in front of the machine".
- martin_a 5y ago
  Which is fine. Buy (electric) fuel like you'd buy a bread. Good news, looking forward to that as it will simplify electric mobility furthermore.
  - dewey 5y ago
    > Which is fine. Buy (electric) fuel like you'd buy a bread. Are you implying you are able to can use a card to pay in a German bakery?
    - dgellow 5y ago
      In Hamburg I pay using my Apple watch all the time, even when it's just for a Franzbrötchen or other small orders
    - martin_a 5y ago
      Yes! As others have mentioned, Covid was a huuuuuuge boost for the acceptance of cashless payment systems in Germany. Even small business now have card readers and don't raise an eye when you want to pay 7,83 by card. If anything good came out of Covid it might be this.
    - deadbunny 5y ago
      You can use cards prettey much everywhere in the EU. From massive chains to street carts.
      - dewey 5y ago
        > From massive chains to street carts. I was specifically talking about Germany and its love for cash. It can be tricky to pay with cards in restaurants and small stores. It is a well known quirk. https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200520-will-coronavirus-change-germans-love-of-cash https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200520-will-coronavir...
      - chrisseaton 5y ago
        Not in Germany!
    - ahartmetz 5y ago
      Maybe if it's colocated with or part of a supermarket.
      - ntp85 5y ago
        Most, if not all, bakeries in my vicinity allow card payments. Even the small, owner operated bakery a few blocks downtown. I know, purely anecdotal. But it goes to show that we Germans maybe aren't as backwards-thinking ;)
    - thesimon 5y ago
      Has been steadily on the rise, most German bakeries I know now have card payments.
    - volta83 5y ago
      I do every day, smaller bakery (no chain), they don't take cash anymore since COVID.
    - arlcode 5y ago
      COVID changed a lot. I can pay by card in chain bakeries and most non chain bakeries around me. My supermarket recently upgraded their card reader to a model which doesn't take an eternity to process a nfc transaction. Restaurants are the biggest hold outs and there many which still only take cash (presumably for "tax reasons").
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
hef19898 5y ago
And I've seen people calling that typical backwards German internet policy. Not sure why closed-wall, obscure subscription solutions to pay for commodity services would be preferable to a robust, proven and easily accessible payment solution like credit/debit cards. It works at scale for fuel, why not for electricity? Heck, if you want it fancy throw in Google, Apple Pay or whatever contactless solution there is. As far as payment for charging is concerned, EVs seem to be really backwards compared to to the existing fuel station networks. Also intriguing how Tesla is able to sell a legal requirement as a great initiative on their behalf.
- ralfd 5y ago
  The criticism I heard on DeutschlandFunk was that now they can't build chargers into thin lampposts or other places with space constraints. It also makes chargers more expensive both in production cost and in maintenance, as you have to support a display and physical buttons and stuff, all that for a "legacy payment method".
  - hef19898 5y ago
    So on the one side we are pushing all kinds of contactless payment methods, incl. credit cards, only to call them "legacy" once those don't result in yet another walled garden but rather the opposite.
  - Reason077 5y ago
    Presumably the payment terminal doesn't need to be built into the individual charger itself. Just like paying for parking in a large car park, there aren't parking meters on every individual space, but rather you can walk to a central terminal to pay.
- thesimon 5y ago
  > Not sure why closed-wall, obscure subscription solutions to pay for commodity services would be preferable to a robust, proven and easily accessible payment solution like credit/debit cards Because these obscure methods of paying usually work out a lot cheaper than paying directly by credit card (usually they have a QR code with a website).

arlcode 5y ago

IIRC that only requires an nfc capable credit card reader so still "waving a card in front of the machine".

martin_a 5y ago
Which is fine. Buy (electric) fuel like you'd buy a bread. Good news, looking forward to that as it will simplify electric mobility furthermore.
- dewey 5y ago
  > Which is fine. Buy (electric) fuel like you'd buy a bread. Are you implying you are able to can use a card to pay in a German bakery?
  - dgellow 5y ago
    In Hamburg I pay using my Apple watch all the time, even when it's just for a Franzbrötchen or other small orders
  - martin_a 5y ago
    Yes! As others have mentioned, Covid was a huuuuuuge boost for the acceptance of cashless payment systems in Germany. Even small business now have card readers and don't raise an eye when you want to pay 7,83 by card. If anything good came out of Covid it might be this.
  - deadbunny 5y ago
    You can use cards prettey much everywhere in the EU. From massive chains to street carts.
    - dewey 5y ago
      > From massive chains to street carts. I was specifically talking about Germany and its love for cash. It can be tricky to pay with cards in restaurants and small stores. It is a well known quirk. https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200520-will-coronavirus-change-germans-love-of-cash https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200520-will-coronavir...
    - chrisseaton 5y ago
      Not in Germany!
  - ahartmetz 5y ago
    Maybe if it's colocated with or part of a supermarket.
    - ntp85 5y ago
      Most, if not all, bakeries in my vicinity allow card payments. Even the small, owner operated bakery a few blocks downtown. I know, purely anecdotal. But it goes to show that we Germans maybe aren't as backwards-thinking ;)
  - thesimon 5y ago
    Has been steadily on the rise, most German bakeries I know now have card payments.
  - volta83 5y ago
    I do every day, smaller bakery (no chain), they don't take cash anymore since COVID.
  - arlcode 5y ago
    COVID changed a lot. I can pay by card in chain bakeries and most non chain bakeries around me. My supermarket recently upgraded their card reader to a model which doesn't take an eternity to process a nfc transaction. Restaurants are the biggest hold outs and there many which still only take cash (presumably for "tax reasons").
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

hef19898 5y ago

And I've seen people calling that typical backwards German internet policy. Not sure why closed-wall, obscure subscription solutions to pay for commodity services would be preferable to a robust, proven and easily accessible payment solution like credit/debit cards. It works at scale for fuel, why not for electricity? Heck, if you want it fancy throw in Google, Apple Pay or whatever contactless solution there is. As far as payment for charging is concerned, EVs seem to be really backwards compared to to the existing fuel station networks. Also intriguing how Tesla is able to sell a legal requirement as a great initiative on their behalf.

ralfd 5y ago
The criticism I heard on DeutschlandFunk was that now they can't build chargers into thin lampposts or other places with space constraints. It also makes chargers more expensive both in production cost and in maintenance, as you have to support a display and physical buttons and stuff, all that for a "legacy payment method".
- hef19898 5y ago
  So on the one side we are pushing all kinds of contactless payment methods, incl. credit cards, only to call them "legacy" once those don't result in yet another walled garden but rather the opposite.
- Reason077 5y ago
  Presumably the payment terminal doesn't need to be built into the individual charger itself. Just like paying for parking in a large car park, there aren't parking meters on every individual space, but rather you can walk to a central terminal to pay.
thesimon 5y ago
> Not sure why closed-wall, obscure subscription solutions to pay for commodity services would be preferable to a robust, proven and easily accessible payment solution like credit/debit cards Because these obscure methods of paying usually work out a lot cheaper than paying directly by credit card (usually they have a QR code with a website).