6 ms·

Source on those claims? Not "the media" but actual sources that haven't been debunked?

thehappypm 5y ago
The New York Times article here has many linked sources, and their reporting on the situation has been stellar. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/03/technology/whistle-blower-facebook-frances-haugen.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/03/technology/whistle-blower...
- hermitwriter 5y ago
  Most of her claims make a gigantic leap to conclusions. I'm asking for a source that shows, for example, a suicide that was _because_ of Facebook. Radicalization trends as another example have been on the rise in the US long before FB or social media, and there are many other countries where FB exists but radicalization is on the decline. There is plenty wrong with FB, but this all seems like trying to pin a root cause to something b/c we need something to blame. Maybe correlation, but I don't see the causation.
  - thehappypm 5y ago
    "Facebook Knows Instagram Is Toxic for Teen Girls, Company Documents Show Its own in-depth research shows a significant teen mental-health issue that Facebook plays down in public" https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-knows-instagram-is-toxic-for-teen-girls-company-documents-show-11631620739?mod=article_inline https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-knows-instagram-is-tox... Their own research shows they know the negative impacts of their platform.
    - hermitwriter 5y ago
      In said study, Facebook acknowledges problems with the study itself as do other researchers without a dog in the fight. Let's see an independent study show the same thing.
      - theduder99 5y ago
        an independent study with access to insider information..k
        hermitwriter 5y ago
        An independent study of the effects of Social Media (instagram, FB, TikTok, whatever) needs no insider information. We're studying the effect, not the company. Hypothesis: Instagram causes teenage girls to have a lower opinion of their bodies than they would otherwise have without Instagram. Study: Have 2 cohorts of teenage girls rate their appearance or happiness with their bodies. The two cohorts are separated by those who use Instagram and those who don't. Run independently, of course. This study is incredibly flawed (like the original) b/c it is self-reported happiness (incredibly subjective, ephemeral, and prone to bias) and subject to the same issues as all qualitative research. The only way to get any semblance of reliable data is with a _large_ set in each cohort. Even then, the data raises more questions than answers it provides. But, you could say after this study whether 'it seems Instagram may be harmful.' It is also flawed for other reasons but you get the point. You don't need insider info to study the effect of something.
        genewitch 5y ago
        No need for this study, it's been shown that teen and beauty magazines increase stress markers and if you're already depressed they're not helping.
        hermitwriter 5y ago
        A magazine is not interactive. It's a unidirectional feedback flow. Magazine photos are also at a specific higher standard than the totality of Instagram pictures. IOW, they are not equivalent. I'm sure we can glean something from those studies, but to get an answer to the question we're asking now, you'd need a better study than Facebook's own. [edited for clarity]
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - mbesto 5y ago
    > a suicide that was _because_ of Facebook. I actually know of no study that conclusively attributes a cause to suicide, so this point is moot in both directions. Do you?
    - hermitwriter 5y ago
      Good point. I do think then we should be careful then attributing _to_ something without proof.
- sabas123 5y ago
  I agree with hermitwriter here. Currently I'm not at all convinced somebody can claim that all of these negative effects wouldn't have existed if we had a morally correct social media platform instead.
takeda 5y ago
I'm assuming you have been in comma in the past few years?
- hermitwriter 5y ago
  Nope. I just don't believe hyped up spin; especially when the deliverers of the content are biased. I like research, and facts.

The New York Times article here has many linked sources, and their reporting on the situation has been stellar. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/03/technology/whistle-blower-facebook-frances-haugen.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/03/technology/whistle-blower...

hermitwriter 5y ago
Most of her claims make a gigantic leap to conclusions. I'm asking for a source that shows, for example, a suicide that was _because_ of Facebook. Radicalization trends as another example have been on the rise in the US long before FB or social media, and there are many other countries where FB exists but radicalization is on the decline. There is plenty wrong with FB, but this all seems like trying to pin a root cause to something b/c we need something to blame. Maybe correlation, but I don't see the causation.
- thehappypm 5y ago
  "Facebook Knows Instagram Is Toxic for Teen Girls, Company Documents Show Its own in-depth research shows a significant teen mental-health issue that Facebook plays down in public" https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-knows-instagram-is-toxic-for-teen-girls-company-documents-show-11631620739?mod=article_inline https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-knows-instagram-is-tox... Their own research shows they know the negative impacts of their platform.
  - hermitwriter 5y ago
    In said study, Facebook acknowledges problems with the study itself as do other researchers without a dog in the fight. Let's see an independent study show the same thing.
    - theduder99 5y ago
      an independent study with access to insider information..k
      - hermitwriter 5y ago
        An independent study of the effects of Social Media (instagram, FB, TikTok, whatever) needs no insider information. We're studying the effect, not the company. Hypothesis: Instagram causes teenage girls to have a lower opinion of their bodies than they would otherwise have without Instagram. Study: Have 2 cohorts of teenage girls rate their appearance or happiness with their bodies. The two cohorts are separated by those who use Instagram and those who don't. Run independently, of course. This study is incredibly flawed (like the original) b/c it is self-reported happiness (incredibly subjective, ephemeral, and prone to bias) and subject to the same issues as all qualitative research. The only way to get any semblance of reliable data is with a _large_ set in each cohort. Even then, the data raises more questions than answers it provides. But, you could say after this study whether 'it seems Instagram may be harmful.' It is also flawed for other reasons but you get the point. You don't need insider info to study the effect of something.
        genewitch 5y ago
        No need for this study, it's been shown that teen and beauty magazines increase stress markers and if you're already depressed they're not helping.
        hermitwriter 5y ago
        A magazine is not interactive. It's a unidirectional feedback flow. Magazine photos are also at a specific higher standard than the totality of Instagram pictures. IOW, they are not equivalent. I'm sure we can glean something from those studies, but to get an answer to the question we're asking now, you'd need a better study than Facebook's own. [edited for clarity]
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- mbesto 5y ago
  > a suicide that was _because_ of Facebook. I actually know of no study that conclusively attributes a cause to suicide, so this point is moot in both directions. Do you?
  - hermitwriter 5y ago
    Good point. I do think then we should be careful then attributing _to_ something without proof.
sabas123 5y ago
I agree with hermitwriter here. Currently I'm not at all convinced somebody can claim that all of these negative effects wouldn't have existed if we had a morally correct social media platform instead.

takeda 5y ago

I'm assuming you have been in comma in the past few years?

hermitwriter 5y ago
Nope. I just don't believe hyped up spin; especially when the deliverers of the content are biased. I like research, and facts.