6 ms·

Why no money for apple ?

michalf6 5y ago
Anti-consumer behaviour. Multiple hardware design faults in macbooks. Actively working against repair, against software freedom, against the user (see recent CSAM fiasco). Non-removable storage. Preference of thin&light vs upgradeability/cooling. I wouldn't mind that as I'm not their customer, but all the crap they introduce gets mindlessly copied by all their competition.
- michalf6 5y ago
  Adding to that, I'm afraid of the world moving away from the PC as a standard. Through a lucky set of circumstances, we were able to enjoy a relatively open and universal compatibility standard of computers for the last several decades. I'm afraid of the computing world fragmenting again into several walled gardens in the likes of Amiga/Atari of old, nothing being compatible with each other, unable to run code not signed by the manufacturer. The danger should IMO be obvious, but I watch in terror as my friends happily buy into the M1.
  - can16358p 5y ago
    The real problem is that there is no competition. Not a fan of Apple here but I use (and admittedly like) their products: I develop apps and iOS is solid on the app landscape, currently we don't even care about Android versions of our apps in almost any project that we use because most people who are "serious" about their apps are on iPhones and iPads. In addition, even though I have the hacker mindset of many out here, at the end of the day I need something reliable and good-looking, and well supported, which Apple has and others don't. I don't like Apple's user-hostile behavior and would happily love to see some competition. For me: Apple is bad, Microsoft/Google is worse. So Apple is relatively good.
  - sircastor 5y ago
    Seeing that, it seems like this is likely cyclical. We’ll have 20 years of siloed hardware, and then some competitors figure out a way to get a foot in the door, or signed-only systems will become distasteful to consumers and Companies will revert, interoperability will become the norm again. There are always barriers in computing and society will respond to it.
    - wheybags 5y ago
      You dismiss 20 years of darkness like it's nothing...
      - emteycz 5y ago
        PC-compatible hardware and software is not going anywhere...
        5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
        Until everyone stops buying it and it becomes a premium thing which the little man like myself simply cannot afford.
        katbyte 5y ago
        PC like desktops are in _no_ danger of going anywhere. There will always been a huge gamer and hobbies market for them. Laptops maybe, but the framework laptop is exactly what you want, seems pretty decent, and has a decent chance of taking off.
  - katbyte 5y ago
    PC like desktops are in no danger of going anywhere, there will always be a huge gamer and hobbyist market for them.
- randomopining 5y ago
  That's the premium you pay for the best.
  - michalf6 5y ago
    I have a different definition of "best".
  - gremIin 5y ago
    What is with this knee-jerk defense of Apple every time someone suggests holding them to a higher consumer standard? You can sell good products while still embracing open technologies.
    - randomopining 5y ago
      You pay $800 and you get your value. The market obviously decided that the value provided is good enough, since their sales are good. Just because you value certain things doesn't mean the collective does.
      - anothernewdude 5y ago
        This is the market being insane though, because they pay a premium because of branding.
        5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
        Which is especially hilarious in low-income countries like mine. The cheapest latest iPhone (I don't remember what the current number is) costs about 3 median monthly incomes. Most of the population cannot afford one, so what do you do? get a loan and pay in monthly installments until the next one comes out, of course. This isn't a rare occurrence, I'd say ⅓ of my acquaintances do this. The power of marketing at its finest.
      - godDLL 5y ago
        Just because some sliver (OK, large sliver) of their consumer base is satisfied with this shit doesn't mean that they didn't live a sizeable amount of people stranded for both hardware and software options. Because they did. I used to be able to slam an MBP down on the woodworking table, open it up and start typing. Now there is no slamming, because they flimsy. No typing near dust, because they get stuck in the keyboard. Every app is a single window, so you can't chat with two people at once. Everything is in the cloud, so you wait on your very fast computer to do networking all the f.in time (even opening Finder). The UI has lost so much of it's legibility that I don't know what I'm looking at half the time anymore. Active window? Maybe not? What does that label say? Why is this a modal? Where is the "don't ask again items" preference pane? We have parted ways, I think. I'm not riding with them anymore.
- tentacleuno 5y ago
  > Preference of thin&light vs upgradeability/cooling. I recently watched something[0] about the Macbook cooling (Intel, at least) and you seem to be right. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlOPPuNv4Ec&t=0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlOPPuNv4Ec&t=0

Anti-consumer behaviour. Multiple hardware design faults in macbooks. Actively working against repair, against software freedom, against the user (see recent CSAM fiasco). Non-removable storage. Preference of thin&light vs upgradeability/cooling. I wouldn't mind that as I'm not their customer, but all the crap they introduce gets mindlessly copied by all their competition.

michalf6 5y ago
Adding to that, I'm afraid of the world moving away from the PC as a standard. Through a lucky set of circumstances, we were able to enjoy a relatively open and universal compatibility standard of computers for the last several decades. I'm afraid of the computing world fragmenting again into several walled gardens in the likes of Amiga/Atari of old, nothing being compatible with each other, unable to run code not signed by the manufacturer. The danger should IMO be obvious, but I watch in terror as my friends happily buy into the M1.
- can16358p 5y ago
  The real problem is that there is no competition. Not a fan of Apple here but I use (and admittedly like) their products: I develop apps and iOS is solid on the app landscape, currently we don't even care about Android versions of our apps in almost any project that we use because most people who are "serious" about their apps are on iPhones and iPads. In addition, even though I have the hacker mindset of many out here, at the end of the day I need something reliable and good-looking, and well supported, which Apple has and others don't. I don't like Apple's user-hostile behavior and would happily love to see some competition. For me: Apple is bad, Microsoft/Google is worse. So Apple is relatively good.
- sircastor 5y ago
  Seeing that, it seems like this is likely cyclical. We’ll have 20 years of siloed hardware, and then some competitors figure out a way to get a foot in the door, or signed-only systems will become distasteful to consumers and Companies will revert, interoperability will become the norm again. There are always barriers in computing and society will respond to it.
  - wheybags 5y ago
    You dismiss 20 years of darkness like it's nothing...
    - emteycz 5y ago
      PC-compatible hardware and software is not going anywhere...
      - 5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
        Until everyone stops buying it and it becomes a premium thing which the little man like myself simply cannot afford.
        katbyte 5y ago
        PC like desktops are in _no_ danger of going anywhere. There will always been a huge gamer and hobbies market for them. Laptops maybe, but the framework laptop is exactly what you want, seems pretty decent, and has a decent chance of taking off.
- katbyte 5y ago
  PC like desktops are in no danger of going anywhere, there will always be a huge gamer and hobbyist market for them.
randomopining 5y ago
That's the premium you pay for the best.
- michalf6 5y ago
  I have a different definition of "best".
- gremIin 5y ago
  What is with this knee-jerk defense of Apple every time someone suggests holding them to a higher consumer standard? You can sell good products while still embracing open technologies.
  - randomopining 5y ago
    You pay $800 and you get your value. The market obviously decided that the value provided is good enough, since their sales are good. Just because you value certain things doesn't mean the collective does.
    - anothernewdude 5y ago
      This is the market being insane though, because they pay a premium because of branding.
      - 5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
        Which is especially hilarious in low-income countries like mine. The cheapest latest iPhone (I don't remember what the current number is) costs about 3 median monthly incomes. Most of the population cannot afford one, so what do you do? get a loan and pay in monthly installments until the next one comes out, of course. This isn't a rare occurrence, I'd say ⅓ of my acquaintances do this. The power of marketing at its finest.
    - godDLL 5y ago
      Just because some sliver (OK, large sliver) of their consumer base is satisfied with this shit doesn't mean that they didn't live a sizeable amount of people stranded for both hardware and software options. Because they did. I used to be able to slam an MBP down on the woodworking table, open it up and start typing. Now there is no slamming, because they flimsy. No typing near dust, because they get stuck in the keyboard. Every app is a single window, so you can't chat with two people at once. Everything is in the cloud, so you wait on your very fast computer to do networking all the f.in time (even opening Finder). The UI has lost so much of it's legibility that I don't know what I'm looking at half the time anymore. Active window? Maybe not? What does that label say? Why is this a modal? Where is the "don't ask again items" preference pane? We have parted ways, I think. I'm not riding with them anymore.
tentacleuno 5y ago
> Preference of thin&light vs upgradeability/cooling. I recently watched something[0] about the Macbook cooling (Intel, at least) and you seem to be right. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlOPPuNv4Ec&t=0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlOPPuNv4Ec&t=0