20 ms·

Nicely put. DF is simply the best game I've ever played, and I've been hooked by many from many genres. The stories told within are insane. I only play it ev

Nicely put. DF is simply the best game I've ever played, and I've been hooked by many from many genres. The stories told within are insane. I only play it every couple of years when the desire catches me, yet still patreon to DF. This is what games should be. Obviously an insane barrier of entry, took me a few goes to 'get it' and even now i barely get it despite playing many varingly 'fun' forts. I watched many youtube lets plays to make different aspects be learnt. Its a beautiful piece of art for sure.

imdsm 5y ago
I've played since 2006 and while I don't find much time these days, I return to it every few years to scratch an itch. I played a lot of ADOM in the old days, and naturally jumped onto DF when it appeared. With tilesets, things became easier, and then with Dwarf Therapist, easier too. Then we got packs like the "Lazy Newb" pack, and with Steam coming too, it'll become even more accessible to folks. The depth of what can be achieved is what amazes me as an engineer. I can build cisterns to hold water, underground reservoirs, a series of mechanisms to refill the water, and to move it to consumption points, through the use of labelled levers, but be sure to smooth the stone, lest you get dusty water. Have some drain away to create mist in a common area, everyone loves mist. And another floodgate to create a defensive section, should invaders breach the entrance. This is but one such area that can be brought about through the mechanics of the game, not to mention swimming practise in 1/2 depth water (7 is fully deep) and more. A truly wonderful game, and I'm honoured to have a crayon drawing from them, to have been like yourself a part of its history. Strike the earth!
- ruste 5y ago
  I play with moderate regularity and have actually never used Dwarf Therapist. (I still regularly consult the wiki though.) The turning point for me that made the game a lot more fun was realizing I could modify the config to set a population cap. If you only every allow 10-20 dwarves you never feel like you're rushing to meet everyones needs and handle new members of your fort all while keeping everyone happy. You can focus on the story and relationships unfolding while meeting every dwarfs individual needs. Suddenly the game is fun again. I also enjoy playing small forts and never breaching into the caverns below. Without the caverns performance stays high. That's mostly a limitation of my computer though.
- waynesonfire 5y ago
  so factorio, rimworld, etc..
  - harywilke 5y ago
    Those are mere gateway drugs.
    - waynesonfire 5y ago
      if those are toys compared to this, i have to try this game. they did always feel like toys.
intended 5y ago
I kinda liked the earlier version of the game, before guides and tools made it easier to get into. This is not a dig on guides, its instead an appreciation for what the game taught me - the idea that losing could be fun. Before that I would always play in a manner that guaranteed success, re-loading if something went wrong. With DF it was either something going spectacularly wrong, or utter boredom when I decided to play safe.
- ZetaZero 5y ago
  > This is not a dig on guides, its instead an appreciation for what the game taught me - the idea that losing could be fun. I disagree. Losing a game because of undocumented behavior or bugs has never been fun for me. Sid Meier - "A game is a series of interesting choices."
  - TuringTest 5y ago
    Different strokes for different folks. Though not every game benefits from having to discover its basic rules by trial and error, there is some appeal to it exploring the unknown when the game is designed around it. Scape rooms are a game genre, after all.
  - mnw21cam 5y ago
    Typically in DF, you lose because of a hilarious sequence of events that overwhelms your fortress' capacity to cope, not through undocumented behaviour and bugs.
    - Filligree 5y ago
      > Typically in DF, you lose because of a hilarious sequence of events that overwhelms your fortress' capacity to cope, not through undocumented behaviour and bugs. You also never really lose. It's always possible to reclaim an old fortress -- losing doesn't cause existence failure, it causes a nonfunctional fortress. If you abandon/retire instead of having everyone die, you may be able to find it in Adventure mode and meet some of your dwarves. Or you can kill the forgotten beast that destroyed it, then retire the adventurer and send in a reclamation party...
standardUser 5y ago
I'm no stranger to involved and complicated games (Crusader Kings, Kerbal Space Program, as examples) but the Dwarf Fortress interface appeared to me to be some sort of elaborate ruse designed to test my patience, or to simply mock me. I'm glad the folks who have the patience to navigate those menus and decipher those "graphics" have rewarding experiences, but I'll wait for the Steam version with actual graphics, and god-willing a UI that isn't optimized to waste my time, before I give it another go.
- ajuc 5y ago
  There are mods and external tools that add normal graphics (top-down, isometric, even full 3d) and simplify micromanagement. It's not that bad if you use Lazy Newb Pack that has DF and most of these utils preconfigured. But yes, it isn't very accessible.
- laumars 5y ago
  There’s plenty of graphical versions of DF. You’re not stuck with the console version if you dont like it. I’m fact there is a graphical version on Steam already
  - standardUser 5y ago
    I tried some of those, but in the end it was the interface that caused me to quit. As for Steam, that version is not released yet: https://store.steampowered.com/app/975370/Dwarf_Fortress/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/975370/Dwarf_Fortress/
- munk-a 5y ago
  I think to understand the UI you've got to have grown up with vim or emacs where offering a wide range of features via rather shallow keyboard interactions to enable power users. I wouldn't say that nested menu driven interactions are entirely suitable - and I think that the first time you go through it helps immensely to have a tutorial open that will lead you through some basic things (designate chopping some trees for lumber - for instance). I also think that people who have been with it longer have a leg up here since the UI has slowly accumulated more complexity over time - the military interface and trade interfaces in particular are pretty hard to grok. That all said - I would say that DF doesn't fall into a trap very common in modern games: it never lies to you in the UI for simplicity, it is clear about what it's doing and most of the errors are relatively clear to comprehend. Some of these have been accumulated over time (i.e. damp/warm stone warnings) but generally when a feature is added that feature gets consistently signaled in all the UI portions that need it and information is sanely repeated. A good example is lava-safe metals which are pretty clearly highlighted in areas where it might be relevant (i.e. building a floodgate and switch mechanisms). I've frequently heard talk that cell-shading adds artistic flair or bloom allows better tooling around creating bright scenes - but the immensely obvious and clear style that DF achieves brings precisely what it needs to bring to the table. Ascii graphics make that game clearly legible while still allowing the imagination to roam and beautiful structures to be created - making a multi-z-level dining hall with balconies adding extra floor space around the roaring fire in the middle of the hall with dwarves dancing merrily around it... that is quite possible in DF - it's just not going to look like a triple-A game.

imdsm 5y ago

I've played since 2006 and while I don't find much time these days, I return to it every few years to scratch an itch. I played a lot of ADOM in the old days, and naturally jumped onto DF when it appeared. With tilesets, things became easier, and then with Dwarf Therapist, easier too. Then we got packs like the "Lazy Newb" pack, and with Steam coming too, it'll become even more accessible to folks. The depth of what can be achieved is what amazes me as an engineer. I can build cisterns to hold water, underground reservoirs, a series of mechanisms to refill the water, and to move it to consumption points, through the use of labelled levers, but be sure to smooth the stone, lest you get dusty water. Have some drain away to create mist in a common area, everyone loves mist. And another floodgate to create a defensive section, should invaders breach the entrance. This is but one such area that can be brought about through the mechanics of the game, not to mention swimming practise in 1/2 depth water (7 is fully deep) and more. A truly wonderful game, and I'm honoured to have a crayon drawing from them, to have been like yourself a part of its history. Strike the earth!

ruste 5y ago
I play with moderate regularity and have actually never used Dwarf Therapist. (I still regularly consult the wiki though.) The turning point for me that made the game a lot more fun was realizing I could modify the config to set a population cap. If you only every allow 10-20 dwarves you never feel like you're rushing to meet everyones needs and handle new members of your fort all while keeping everyone happy. You can focus on the story and relationships unfolding while meeting every dwarfs individual needs. Suddenly the game is fun again. I also enjoy playing small forts and never breaching into the caverns below. Without the caverns performance stays high. That's mostly a limitation of my computer though.
waynesonfire 5y ago
so factorio, rimworld, etc..
- harywilke 5y ago
  Those are mere gateway drugs.
  - waynesonfire 5y ago
    if those are toys compared to this, i have to try this game. they did always feel like toys.

intended 5y ago

I kinda liked the earlier version of the game, before guides and tools made it easier to get into. This is not a dig on guides, its instead an appreciation for what the game taught me - the idea that losing could be fun. Before that I would always play in a manner that guaranteed success, re-loading if something went wrong. With DF it was either something going spectacularly wrong, or utter boredom when I decided to play safe.

ZetaZero 5y ago
> This is not a dig on guides, its instead an appreciation for what the game taught me - the idea that losing could be fun. I disagree. Losing a game because of undocumented behavior or bugs has never been fun for me. Sid Meier - "A game is a series of interesting choices."
- TuringTest 5y ago
  Different strokes for different folks. Though not every game benefits from having to discover its basic rules by trial and error, there is some appeal to it exploring the unknown when the game is designed around it. Scape rooms are a game genre, after all.
- mnw21cam 5y ago
  Typically in DF, you lose because of a hilarious sequence of events that overwhelms your fortress' capacity to cope, not through undocumented behaviour and bugs.
  - Filligree 5y ago
    > Typically in DF, you lose because of a hilarious sequence of events that overwhelms your fortress' capacity to cope, not through undocumented behaviour and bugs. You also never really lose. It's always possible to reclaim an old fortress -- losing doesn't cause existence failure, it causes a nonfunctional fortress. If you abandon/retire instead of having everyone die, you may be able to find it in Adventure mode and meet some of your dwarves. Or you can kill the forgotten beast that destroyed it, then retire the adventurer and send in a reclamation party...

standardUser 5y ago

I'm no stranger to involved and complicated games (Crusader Kings, Kerbal Space Program, as examples) but the Dwarf Fortress interface appeared to me to be some sort of elaborate ruse designed to test my patience, or to simply mock me. I'm glad the folks who have the patience to navigate those menus and decipher those "graphics" have rewarding experiences, but I'll wait for the Steam version with actual graphics, and god-willing a UI that isn't optimized to waste my time, before I give it another go.

ajuc 5y ago
There are mods and external tools that add normal graphics (top-down, isometric, even full 3d) and simplify micromanagement. It's not that bad if you use Lazy Newb Pack that has DF and most of these utils preconfigured. But yes, it isn't very accessible.
laumars 5y ago
There’s plenty of graphical versions of DF. You’re not stuck with the console version if you dont like it. I’m fact there is a graphical version on Steam already
- standardUser 5y ago
  I tried some of those, but in the end it was the interface that caused me to quit. As for Steam, that version is not released yet: https://store.steampowered.com/app/975370/Dwarf_Fortress/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/975370/Dwarf_Fortress/
munk-a 5y ago
I think to understand the UI you've got to have grown up with vim or emacs where offering a wide range of features via rather shallow keyboard interactions to enable power users. I wouldn't say that nested menu driven interactions are entirely suitable - and I think that the first time you go through it helps immensely to have a tutorial open that will lead you through some basic things (designate chopping some trees for lumber - for instance). I also think that people who have been with it longer have a leg up here since the UI has slowly accumulated more complexity over time - the military interface and trade interfaces in particular are pretty hard to grok. That all said - I would say that DF doesn't fall into a trap very common in modern games: it never lies to you in the UI for simplicity, it is clear about what it's doing and most of the errors are relatively clear to comprehend. Some of these have been accumulated over time (i.e. damp/warm stone warnings) but generally when a feature is added that feature gets consistently signaled in all the UI portions that need it and information is sanely repeated. A good example is lava-safe metals which are pretty clearly highlighted in areas where it might be relevant (i.e. building a floodgate and switch mechanisms). I've frequently heard talk that cell-shading adds artistic flair or bloom allows better tooling around creating bright scenes - but the immensely obvious and clear style that DF achieves brings precisely what it needs to bring to the table. Ascii graphics make that game clearly legible while still allowing the imagination to roam and beautiful structures to be created - making a multi-z-level dining hall with balconies adding extra floor space around the roaring fire in the middle of the hall with dwarves dancing merrily around it... that is quite possible in DF - it's just not going to look like a triple-A game.