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Interesting parallel here to the floppy disk icon being used for "save". It's quite possible that icon is ubiquitous enough that, without a push to change it, i

Interesting parallel here to the floppy disk icon being used for "save". It's quite possible that icon is ubiquitous enough that, without a push to change it, it sticks around for 100 years as well.

oneeyedpigeon 5y ago
> it sticks around for 100 years as well Only if the concept of manual save sticks around that long.
- im3w1l 5y ago
  Even in systems that continously save your progress there is a close analogue to manual save: Named revisions. Bookmarks of points in history that are better than the surrounding ones - points where some milestone has been reached, and some amount of proofreading done. Where there are no duplicated paragraphs or major rough edges like that.
  - codetrotter 5y ago
    But the floppy icon would not be a good fit for depicting named revisions
    - gumby 5y ago
      Sure, it’s copying your revision to a disk, writing the date on the label, and sticking it in a box.
    - jcims 5y ago
      The only difference between what is being described here and what we have been working with until today is how far undo/redo go. For the most part the intent is to memorialize a snapshot of the work, a task the floppy icon has been fulfilling all along.
    - dylan604 5y ago
      If the current document is Untitled, New File, No Name, etc and does not actually point to a file, then the ubiquitous Floppy icon should act as Save As. Once the file does exist, a simple Shift-click of the same floppy icon should also act as Save As. Same thing as Cmd-S/Cmd-Shfit-S. However, I'm unfamiliar with this modifier click save as from any app.
- _Microft 5y ago
  What's the alternative? Autosaves? Did it autosave or did it not? Where did it save it to? Locally or to the cloud? Are the servers available? Does it make clear when they are not? Or worse, does it fail silently if they are not? Call me old-fashioned but please give me a save button and a file picker ;)
  - jader201 5y ago
    I’m both old and old fashioned, but I’ll take auto-save any day over manual save, especially something that required manual save without support of auto-save. I’ve lost enough work prior to auto-save being common that I never want to deal with an app that doesn’t somehow save my work pretty frequently.
    - atoav 5y ago
      I like autosaves as well, but as a "I didn't save manually but there is always an autosave"-option. Saving is also a file managment choice.
      - dylan604 5y ago
        It really depends on what the app is though, yeah? If I'm in document processing or spreadsheet where you might be working for long periods where a 5min auto-save kicks in could be convenient. However, when I'm writing code that then needs to make rapid changes like updating CSS/JS/etc to be refreshed in browser, then I'm not waiting 5 mins for an autosave. Cmd-S, Cmd-tab, Shift-Cmd-R, boom. However, Cmd-S is so engrained into the muscle memory, that it's almost instinctual to hit it after every press of a semi-colon.
        IgorPartola 5y ago
        If I type in rm -rf / and pause for a moment trying to remember if I’m trying to delete /var/log/apache2/ or /usr/local/var/log/apache2/ in a dev environment that auto-executes code when I save it I would strongly prefer that it wait until I manually save.
gumby 5y ago
Which itself embodies an archaic remnant: the “floppy” disk icon is most often the 3.5 inch disk (the one with a metal shutter) which was in fact rigid. Actual “floppy” disks (8” and later 5.25”) were flexible and needed a slightly more rigid sleeve to make them easy to handle. The 3.5” ones needed the sleeve to protect the medium (the actual disk).
- United857 5y ago
  The 3.5 inch disks took off around the same time as Windows did (the Mac had always used them) so probably no coincidence that's that the save icon represents.
- sophacles 5y ago
  The disk itself was floppy, and basically the same as the larger disks. The case around them was rigid.
- moron4hire 5y ago
  The actual disk portion on the inside was the floppy part, so it's still a "floppy disk". The rigid part on the outside was called the cassette.
  - alisonkisk 5y ago
    and "cassette tapes" (for computer or radio/stereo/receiver) are the same material, but the magnetic media is in a roll of tape instead of a spinning disk shape.
    - moron4hire 5y ago
      Man, I seriously miss cassettes and cartridges, especially for video games. I recently bought a Nintendo 2DS for my young kids--having missed out on it during its original run myself, and observing that the children grow rather extreme behavioural issues if we let them play on iPads--and even those tiny little cartridges just have something to them. It makes the games feel more real to me, versus downloaded apps just taking up an icon on a screen.
webwielder2 5y ago
The floppy disk icon never took off in the Apple ecosystem, so every time I see it in Windows world it seems like a bizarre anachronism. Which it is. Emblematic really of Apple’s ethos of plunging forward and Wintel’s backwards compatibility at all costs approach.
- alisonkisk 5y ago
  Not really. Apple taught the world the word "skeuomorphic", making fake paper and leather and metal for their apps. Also, Apple famously used the OP's bomb icon whenever Mac OS plunged forward into a crash.
- Macha 5y ago
  However, floppy disk icons also survive in Linux, android and web apps, at least in those which save is an explicit GUI action, so it's really only Apple thats the outlier here
- blondin 5y ago
  you are making an interesting point that is shadowed by the extra comment. the floppy disk image as "save" icon is rare in most native mac apps. GP's point is quite interesting because there is a generation or two that hasn't seen a real floppy disk beside on those icons. they probably have no clue what it is. i wonder what other icon images are like that.
  - 00N8 5y ago
    the rounded symbols for 'database' icons are based on some ancient storage medium used in early mainframes - magnetic drum memory I think
    - userbinator 5y ago
      I've always thought of those as more like barrels of data (as opposed to oil).
    - CRConrad 5y ago
smegcicle 5y ago
there does seem to be some kind of push against it, as if it's either triggering to anyone who hasn't seen one in real life, or maybe the ui designer is afraid someone will think they're old and out-of-touch? the alternative seems to be pictures of folders and clouds with arrows going in and out of them, when the extremely distinctive floppy disk icon unambiguously means whatever form of 'save' is most intuitive and useful
fencepost 5y ago
Are you referring to the vending machine icon?
wolverine876 5y ago
> Interesting parallel here to the floppy disk icon being used for "save". It's quite possible that icon is ubiquitous enough that, without a push to change it, it sticks around for 100 years as well. What icon would you use? it's not an easy question.
- kragen 5y ago
  Friefox seems to be using an arrow (itself an anachronism in the age of the AK-47, but perhaps the most common ideogram in modern written English) that goes into a tabbed file folder.

Interesting parallel here to the floppy disk icon being used for "save". It's quite possible that icon is ubiquitous enough that, without a push to change it, it sticks around for 100 years as well.

oneeyedpigeon 5y ago

> it sticks around for 100 years as well Only if the concept of manual save sticks around that long.

im3w1l 5y ago
Even in systems that continously save your progress there is a close analogue to manual save: Named revisions. Bookmarks of points in history that are better than the surrounding ones - points where some milestone has been reached, and some amount of proofreading done. Where there are no duplicated paragraphs or major rough edges like that.
- codetrotter 5y ago
  But the floppy icon would not be a good fit for depicting named revisions
  - gumby 5y ago
    Sure, it’s copying your revision to a disk, writing the date on the label, and sticking it in a box.
  - jcims 5y ago
    The only difference between what is being described here and what we have been working with until today is how far undo/redo go. For the most part the intent is to memorialize a snapshot of the work, a task the floppy icon has been fulfilling all along.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    If the current document is Untitled, New File, No Name, etc and does not actually point to a file, then the ubiquitous Floppy icon should act as Save As. Once the file does exist, a simple Shift-click of the same floppy icon should also act as Save As. Same thing as Cmd-S/Cmd-Shfit-S. However, I'm unfamiliar with this modifier click save as from any app.
_Microft 5y ago
What's the alternative? Autosaves? Did it autosave or did it not? Where did it save it to? Locally or to the cloud? Are the servers available? Does it make clear when they are not? Or worse, does it fail silently if they are not? Call me old-fashioned but please give me a save button and a file picker ;)
- jader201 5y ago
  I’m both old and old fashioned, but I’ll take auto-save any day over manual save, especially something that required manual save without support of auto-save. I’ve lost enough work prior to auto-save being common that I never want to deal with an app that doesn’t somehow save my work pretty frequently.
  - atoav 5y ago
    I like autosaves as well, but as a "I didn't save manually but there is always an autosave"-option. Saving is also a file managment choice.
    - dylan604 5y ago
      It really depends on what the app is though, yeah? If I'm in document processing or spreadsheet where you might be working for long periods where a 5min auto-save kicks in could be convenient. However, when I'm writing code that then needs to make rapid changes like updating CSS/JS/etc to be refreshed in browser, then I'm not waiting 5 mins for an autosave. Cmd-S, Cmd-tab, Shift-Cmd-R, boom. However, Cmd-S is so engrained into the muscle memory, that it's almost instinctual to hit it after every press of a semi-colon.
      - IgorPartola 5y ago
        If I type in rm -rf / and pause for a moment trying to remember if I’m trying to delete /var/log/apache2/ or /usr/local/var/log/apache2/ in a dev environment that auto-executes code when I save it I would strongly prefer that it wait until I manually save.

gumby 5y ago

Which itself embodies an archaic remnant: the “floppy” disk icon is most often the 3.5 inch disk (the one with a metal shutter) which was in fact rigid. Actual “floppy” disks (8” and later 5.25”) were flexible and needed a slightly more rigid sleeve to make them easy to handle. The 3.5” ones needed the sleeve to protect the medium (the actual disk).

United857 5y ago
The 3.5 inch disks took off around the same time as Windows did (the Mac had always used them) so probably no coincidence that's that the save icon represents.
sophacles 5y ago
The disk itself was floppy, and basically the same as the larger disks. The case around them was rigid.
moron4hire 5y ago
The actual disk portion on the inside was the floppy part, so it's still a "floppy disk". The rigid part on the outside was called the cassette.
- alisonkisk 5y ago
  and "cassette tapes" (for computer or radio/stereo/receiver) are the same material, but the magnetic media is in a roll of tape instead of a spinning disk shape.
  - moron4hire 5y ago
    Man, I seriously miss cassettes and cartridges, especially for video games. I recently bought a Nintendo 2DS for my young kids--having missed out on it during its original run myself, and observing that the children grow rather extreme behavioural issues if we let them play on iPads--and even those tiny little cartridges just have something to them. It makes the games feel more real to me, versus downloaded apps just taking up an icon on a screen.

webwielder2 5y ago

The floppy disk icon never took off in the Apple ecosystem, so every time I see it in Windows world it seems like a bizarre anachronism. Which it is. Emblematic really of Apple’s ethos of plunging forward and Wintel’s backwards compatibility at all costs approach.

alisonkisk 5y ago
Not really. Apple taught the world the word "skeuomorphic", making fake paper and leather and metal for their apps. Also, Apple famously used the OP's bomb icon whenever Mac OS plunged forward into a crash.
Macha 5y ago
However, floppy disk icons also survive in Linux, android and web apps, at least in those which save is an explicit GUI action, so it's really only Apple thats the outlier here
blondin 5y ago
you are making an interesting point that is shadowed by the extra comment. the floppy disk image as "save" icon is rare in most native mac apps. GP's point is quite interesting because there is a generation or two that hasn't seen a real floppy disk beside on those icons. they probably have no clue what it is. i wonder what other icon images are like that.
- 00N8 5y ago
  the rounded symbols for 'database' icons are based on some ancient storage medium used in early mainframes - magnetic drum memory I think
  - userbinator 5y ago
    I've always thought of those as more like barrels of data (as opposed to oil).
  - CRConrad 5y ago

smegcicle 5y ago

there does seem to be some kind of push against it, as if it's either triggering to anyone who hasn't seen one in real life, or maybe the ui designer is afraid someone will think they're old and out-of-touch? the alternative seems to be pictures of folders and clouds with arrows going in and out of them, when the extremely distinctive floppy disk icon unambiguously means whatever form of 'save' is most intuitive and useful

fencepost 5y ago

Are you referring to the vending machine icon?

wolverine876 5y ago

> Interesting parallel here to the floppy disk icon being used for "save". It's quite possible that icon is ubiquitous enough that, without a push to change it, it sticks around for 100 years as well. What icon would you use? it's not an easy question.

kragen 5y ago
Friefox seems to be using an arrow (itself an anachronism in the age of the AK-47, but perhaps the most common ideogram in modern written English) that goes into a tabbed file folder.