17 ms·

Monotype acquires Hoefler&Co

145 points by mikedc 5y ago

stuart78 5y ago
Wow, that is the end of an era. In some ways it is sad to see a successful independent foundry get absorbed, but on the other hand, it sounds like he is ready for a break, and this sounds like a good outcome for those involved.
spoonjim 5y ago
So Hoefler makes out like a bandit while Frere-Jones gets totally shafted. Business as usual.
- jerbearito 5y ago
  Yep! Still sad to see.
- cantrecall18169 5y ago
  Confused. Monotype is PE-owned. Buying companies on the cheap and selling is classic PE logic. Monotype annual revenues were less than 1/10th the acquisition cost. Hoefler&Co had 5 employees and gross revenue was just over 625. Even if they sold for 10 times revenue, that's only $6M for 32 years of work. Purportedly: 1. Hoefler started the company in 1989. 2. After 10 years, in 1999, Frere-Jones joined—as an employee. No way someone puts in 10 years and makes someone else 50/50 unless they put up capital. 3. After 13 years, in 2002, Hoefler's wife became CEO. Likely that Hoefler and her were the largest shareholders. 4. After 16 years, in 2005, rebranded to include Frere-Jones. Pretty generous! 5. After 9 years rebranded and 15 years working together, in 2014, Frere-Jones sues Hoefler for $20M, claiming the fonts were worth $3M each. They settle after nine months. Frere-Jones immediately starts his own company. 6. After 32 years, in 2021, Hoefler sells and decides he wants to do something different. How can you say he made out like a bandit? I would understand saying that if he started the company with Frere-Jones, sold for hundreds of millions in four years, and managed to keep all of it for himself.
  - spoonjim 5y ago
    Hoefler’s gross revenue was $625 thousand ? Sounds impossible. What’s your source?
    - fatbird 5y ago
      Hey, if the The Lord of the Rings movies can lose money, as New Line asserted to Peter Jackson when they denied him royalties, then a New York type foundry can surely operate for a couple decades on just a little more than a half million.
  - eps 5y ago
    Frere-Jones designed most of the fonts that put HFJ the map and made them what they are today. Including Gotham that was used in Obama's campaign and shoot this foundry to stardom. All based on a handshake agreement between H and FJ made when they started working together and an understanding they were equal partners. H massively screwed FJ. That's not debatable.
  - dondawest 5y ago
    You’re missing key information on (2.) Frere-Jones DID put up capital… intellectual capital. He transferred the rights to famous typefaces he had designed, including Whitney, to the company with the understanding that he would be full partner. Hoefler shafted F-J so hard it’s unbelievable. The foundry’s reputation was built on Gotham which F-J designed. There’s no other way to see it.
    - NetOpWibby 5y ago
      This is key information I missed all those years ago, thanks. I just remember feeling bad for FJ because something felt off about the whole thing.
bww 5y ago
Somewhat related: the saga between Hoefler and former partner Frere-Jones, who Hoefler almost certainly attempted to (and perhaps successfully) screwed over. https://www.fastcompany.com/3036423/type-stars-jonathan-hoefler-and-tobias-frere-jones-settle-their-bitter-lawsuit https://www.fastcompany.com/3036423/type-stars-jonathan-hoef...
- pupdroid 5y ago
  This story is almost seven years old. These guys settled their dispute and moved on. Frere Jones now has a very successful type company of his own. He's not exactly living in a van by the river
  - thristian 5y ago
    It's been decades since the Beatles broke up, but there's still people who (fairly or otherwise) nurse a grudge about it. Sure, nobody would ever claim H&FJ were "bigger than Jesus", but at least in a certain demographic they were pretty big.
  - jonas21 5y ago
    Have they really put it behind them? Hoefler doesn't so much as acknowledge Frere-Jones in his post. And one of Frere-Jones' type designers had this to say about the whole thing: https://twitter.com/ninastoessinger/status/1438271086844682240 https://twitter.com/ninastoessinger/status/14382710868446822...
    - flixic 5y ago
      Can’t agree more with this tweet. It was amazing fonts directed by Frere-Jones that created almost all the value for H&F-J.
      - OskarS 5y ago
        I’m FJ’s side in this whole saga, but you’re minimizing Jonathan Hoefler’s contributions a bit: it’s true that Frere-Jones made Gotham, but Hoefler has made many iconic typefaces as well. Hoefler Text, obviously, but my favorite is probably Champion Gothic (think “Straight Outta Compton”). It’s not Wozniak/Jobs situation where one of them was a creative genius and the other a cold-blooded businessman: they’re both creative geniuses. One of them just screwed the other one over.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
intellix 5y ago
Once worked on a website where they declared paying $10k/yr for a Helvetica licence was necessary and they didn't want to use a free alternative. It's something that still perplexes me to this day...
- themodelplumber 5y ago
  A free alternative to their on-brand font? That's crazy in a lot of ways too...
- RicoElectrico 5y ago
  The more you think about it, the more you realize "top" designers are a cirlejerk. They also think they're some messiah on a mission save the world. At the same time regular people in the industry get screwed over and are paid peanuts.
blakewatson 5y ago
I can't help but worry about Hoefler&Co's subscription service, cloud.typography. Monotype use to offer an affordable subscription called the Monotype Library Subscription. I still have it since, fortunately, they continue to provide the service to those who had signed up. But they no longer offer new sign-ups. cloud.typography is affordable for personal/solo developer use ($99/year). The cheapest Monotype subscription plan is $7.5k/year. I worry that Monotype will eventually shut down cloud.typography, which will be a real shame if they don't provide some kind of affordable/non-enterprise alternative. These are some beautiful fonts. I would hate to see them end up behind a big paywall that only businesses can afford. I'm really hoping they bring back some form of the Monotype Library Subscription.
- vitejose 5y ago
  The Monotype Library Subscription was awesome! I've been stubbornly holding onto my subscription but I'm starting to worry I might have to cancel it since finances are a bit tight for me at the moment. What a shame they stopped offering it. My only complaint was that the anti-piracy functionality in the SkyFonts program meant I couldn't get the fonts to work with TeX.
ineedasername 5y ago
It's fascinating (in a good way) to me that typographers are still around. On the surface, apart from IP licenses, it doesn't seem necessary, with perhaps the exception of marketing & advertising where a unique design is desired. Yet when you peek under the hood, typography is a lot more than just typefaces, and often goes to the heart of readability and accessibility. A graphic designer might design the text for a logo, or even a typeface, but a professional typographer is so much more, and more nuanced. It also seems like one of perhaps only a handful of trades that has been around centuries and yet did not have all of its fundamentals, in essence, changed by the shift to digital. It seems like all the digital world did was change it's implementation methods.
- vmception 5y ago
  Its honestly a wonder that we - as humans - even recognize so many variations of our own letters and symbols such that we don't really notice the nuance of typography until particulars are pointed out to us
  - tempodox 5y ago
    In my view, the best craft/design facilitates easy access to content or functionality without us even noticing its presence. It “just works”, unobtrusively. Typography had centuries to figure this out.
    - ineedasername 5y ago
      without us even noticing its presence Agreed, I really only ever notice a font when it makes something hard to read.
parenthesis 5y ago
Hoefler Text is one of my favourite fonts.

145 points by mikedc 5y ago

Wow, that is the end of an era. In some ways it is sad to see a successful independent foundry get absorbed, but on the other hand, it sounds like he is ready for a break, and this sounds like a good outcome for those involved.

spoonjim 5y ago

So Hoefler makes out like a bandit while Frere-Jones gets totally shafted. Business as usual.

jerbearito 5y ago
Yep! Still sad to see.
cantrecall18169 5y ago
Confused. Monotype is PE-owned. Buying companies on the cheap and selling is classic PE logic. Monotype annual revenues were less than 1/10th the acquisition cost. Hoefler&Co had 5 employees and gross revenue was just over 625. Even if they sold for 10 times revenue, that's only $6M for 32 years of work. Purportedly: 1. Hoefler started the company in 1989. 2. After 10 years, in 1999, Frere-Jones joined—as an employee. No way someone puts in 10 years and makes someone else 50/50 unless they put up capital. 3. After 13 years, in 2002, Hoefler's wife became CEO. Likely that Hoefler and her were the largest shareholders. 4. After 16 years, in 2005, rebranded to include Frere-Jones. Pretty generous! 5. After 9 years rebranded and 15 years working together, in 2014, Frere-Jones sues Hoefler for $20M, claiming the fonts were worth $3M each. They settle after nine months. Frere-Jones immediately starts his own company. 6. After 32 years, in 2021, Hoefler sells and decides he wants to do something different. How can you say he made out like a bandit? I would understand saying that if he started the company with Frere-Jones, sold for hundreds of millions in four years, and managed to keep all of it for himself.
- spoonjim 5y ago
  Hoefler’s gross revenue was $625 thousand ? Sounds impossible. What’s your source?
  - fatbird 5y ago
    Hey, if the The Lord of the Rings movies can lose money, as New Line asserted to Peter Jackson when they denied him royalties, then a New York type foundry can surely operate for a couple decades on just a little more than a half million.
- eps 5y ago
  Frere-Jones designed most of the fonts that put HFJ the map and made them what they are today. Including Gotham that was used in Obama's campaign and shoot this foundry to stardom. All based on a handshake agreement between H and FJ made when they started working together and an understanding they were equal partners. H massively screwed FJ. That's not debatable.
- dondawest 5y ago
  You’re missing key information on (2.) Frere-Jones DID put up capital… intellectual capital. He transferred the rights to famous typefaces he had designed, including Whitney, to the company with the understanding that he would be full partner. Hoefler shafted F-J so hard it’s unbelievable. The foundry’s reputation was built on Gotham which F-J designed. There’s no other way to see it.
  - NetOpWibby 5y ago
    This is key information I missed all those years ago, thanks. I just remember feeling bad for FJ because something felt off about the whole thing.

bww 5y ago

Somewhat related: the saga between Hoefler and former partner Frere-Jones, who Hoefler almost certainly attempted to (and perhaps successfully) screwed over. https://www.fastcompany.com/3036423/type-stars-jonathan-hoefler-and-tobias-frere-jones-settle-their-bitter-lawsuit https://www.fastcompany.com/3036423/type-stars-jonathan-hoef...

pupdroid 5y ago
This story is almost seven years old. These guys settled their dispute and moved on. Frere Jones now has a very successful type company of his own. He's not exactly living in a van by the river
- thristian 5y ago
  It's been decades since the Beatles broke up, but there's still people who (fairly or otherwise) nurse a grudge about it. Sure, nobody would ever claim H&FJ were "bigger than Jesus", but at least in a certain demographic they were pretty big.
- jonas21 5y ago
  Have they really put it behind them? Hoefler doesn't so much as acknowledge Frere-Jones in his post. And one of Frere-Jones' type designers had this to say about the whole thing: https://twitter.com/ninastoessinger/status/1438271086844682240 https://twitter.com/ninastoessinger/status/14382710868446822...
  - flixic 5y ago
    Can’t agree more with this tweet. It was amazing fonts directed by Frere-Jones that created almost all the value for H&F-J.
    - OskarS 5y ago
      I’m FJ’s side in this whole saga, but you’re minimizing Jonathan Hoefler’s contributions a bit: it’s true that Frere-Jones made Gotham, but Hoefler has made many iconic typefaces as well. Hoefler Text, obviously, but my favorite is probably Champion Gothic (think “Straight Outta Compton”). It’s not Wozniak/Jobs situation where one of them was a creative genius and the other a cold-blooded businessman: they’re both creative geniuses. One of them just screwed the other one over.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

intellix 5y ago

Once worked on a website where they declared paying $10k/yr for a Helvetica licence was necessary and they didn't want to use a free alternative. It's something that still perplexes me to this day...

themodelplumber 5y ago
A free alternative to their on-brand font? That's crazy in a lot of ways too...
RicoElectrico 5y ago
The more you think about it, the more you realize "top" designers are a cirlejerk. They also think they're some messiah on a mission save the world. At the same time regular people in the industry get screwed over and are paid peanuts.

blakewatson 5y ago

I can't help but worry about Hoefler&Co's subscription service, cloud.typography. Monotype use to offer an affordable subscription called the Monotype Library Subscription. I still have it since, fortunately, they continue to provide the service to those who had signed up. But they no longer offer new sign-ups. cloud.typography is affordable for personal/solo developer use ($99/year). The cheapest Monotype subscription plan is $7.5k/year. I worry that Monotype will eventually shut down cloud.typography, which will be a real shame if they don't provide some kind of affordable/non-enterprise alternative. These are some beautiful fonts. I would hate to see them end up behind a big paywall that only businesses can afford. I'm really hoping they bring back some form of the Monotype Library Subscription.

vitejose 5y ago
The Monotype Library Subscription was awesome! I've been stubbornly holding onto my subscription but I'm starting to worry I might have to cancel it since finances are a bit tight for me at the moment. What a shame they stopped offering it. My only complaint was that the anti-piracy functionality in the SkyFonts program meant I couldn't get the fonts to work with TeX.

ineedasername 5y ago

It's fascinating (in a good way) to me that typographers are still around. On the surface, apart from IP licenses, it doesn't seem necessary, with perhaps the exception of marketing & advertising where a unique design is desired. Yet when you peek under the hood, typography is a lot more than just typefaces, and often goes to the heart of readability and accessibility. A graphic designer might design the text for a logo, or even a typeface, but a professional typographer is so much more, and more nuanced. It also seems like one of perhaps only a handful of trades that has been around centuries and yet did not have all of its fundamentals, in essence, changed by the shift to digital. It seems like all the digital world did was change it's implementation methods.

vmception 5y ago
Its honestly a wonder that we - as humans - even recognize so many variations of our own letters and symbols such that we don't really notice the nuance of typography until particulars are pointed out to us
- tempodox 5y ago
  In my view, the best craft/design facilitates easy access to content or functionality without us even noticing its presence. It “just works”, unobtrusively. Typography had centuries to figure this out.
  - ineedasername 5y ago
    without us even noticing its presence Agreed, I really only ever notice a font when it makes something hard to read.

parenthesis 5y ago

Hoefler Text is one of my favourite fonts.