5 ms·

It’s perfectly fine for that to be ones risk tolerance and to take mitigation steps. It’s not to mandate them by government fiat.

ceejayoz 5y ago
We've been quite comfortable with vaccine mandates for decades. My kids needed proof of MMR, DTaP, and several others to be able to attend school. Colleges have similar requirements. Hand washing is mandated "by government fiat" in many scenarios, as are quite a few other OHSA or public health scenarios - try working on a construction site without a hard hat, for example.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  In 2019 or earlier, when have you had to show an ID and proof of vaccination to enter any building other than your own house? And for schools, didn't you used to have private schools or homeschooling as an option to avoid these kind of mandates? And hard hats aren't really comparable, since you can take them back off at the end of the workday.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    > In 2019 or earlier, when have you had to show an ID and proof of vaccination to enter any building other than your own house? I live in upstate New York - one of the more aggressive states for COVID measures - and have not yet had to do this, a year and a half into the pandemic. (I did, however, have to prove my vaccination status and present ID when I became a naturalized US citizen quite a few years ago. https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-8-part-b-chapter-9 https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-8-part-b-chapter-...) > And for schools, didn't you used to have private schools or homeschooling as an option to avoid these kind of mandates? These still exist.
    - josephcsible 5y ago
      > These still exist. But they don't get you out of the mandates anymore. Adults who already finished school used to never have to tell anyone their vaccination status to participate in society.
      - ceejayoz 5y ago
        Again, I literally had to prove my vaccination status to be allowed to stay in the US. In 2009… and I’ve yet to present my COVID card anywhere in upstate NY.
        pandaman 5y ago
        Non-citizens do not have the right of citizens, you might have known already, but one can be denied the green card and/or not allowed into the country for having a communicable disease like AIDS or TB. If I follow your logic, it's okay to have AIDS, TB, leprosy, etc. passports too?
        ceejayoz 5y ago
        > If I follow your logic, it's okay to have AIDS, TB, leprosy, etc. passports too? If they start spreading exponentially via aerosols, sure.
        pandaman 5y ago
        But people with AIDS are not allowed into the country already, why you add conditions? Does the Constitution say anything about aerosols? Besides, TB spreads with the aerosols so we should have the BCG vaccine mandates, right?
        ceejayoz 5y ago
        It's fairly obvious that TB is not spreading like COVID does in the United States. If it were, restrictions would be sensible. (I would note that if you have TB, you may wind up subject to a quarantine order. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tb-patient-quarantine-conditions-insane/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tb-patient-quarantine-condition...) Constitutionally, SCOTUS has ruled on the point in the past. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts > Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905), was a United States Supreme Court case in which the Court upheld the authority of states to enforce compulsory vaccination laws. The Court's decision articulated the view that individual liberty is not absolute and is subject to the police power of the state.
  - rejectedandsad 5y ago
    I’m referring to masks. Mandating vaccines is fine and good.
    - shapefrog 5y ago
      So you are ok with injecting things into peoples bodies, by force. But covering the nose and mouth, when around others, is beyond the pale?
      - rejectedandsad 5y ago
        Yes, because I’ve gotten vaccinated and I shouldn’t be continued to be punished with restrictions.

ceejayoz 5y ago

We've been quite comfortable with vaccine mandates for decades. My kids needed proof of MMR, DTaP, and several others to be able to attend school. Colleges have similar requirements. Hand washing is mandated "by government fiat" in many scenarios, as are quite a few other OHSA or public health scenarios - try working on a construction site without a hard hat, for example.

josephcsible 5y ago
In 2019 or earlier, when have you had to show an ID and proof of vaccination to enter any building other than your own house? And for schools, didn't you used to have private schools or homeschooling as an option to avoid these kind of mandates? And hard hats aren't really comparable, since you can take them back off at the end of the workday.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  > In 2019 or earlier, when have you had to show an ID and proof of vaccination to enter any building other than your own house? I live in upstate New York - one of the more aggressive states for COVID measures - and have not yet had to do this, a year and a half into the pandemic. (I did, however, have to prove my vaccination status and present ID when I became a naturalized US citizen quite a few years ago. https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-8-part-b-chapter-9 https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-8-part-b-chapter-...) > And for schools, didn't you used to have private schools or homeschooling as an option to avoid these kind of mandates? These still exist.
  - josephcsible 5y ago
    > These still exist. But they don't get you out of the mandates anymore. Adults who already finished school used to never have to tell anyone their vaccination status to participate in society.
    - ceejayoz 5y ago
      Again, I literally had to prove my vaccination status to be allowed to stay in the US. In 2009… and I’ve yet to present my COVID card anywhere in upstate NY.
      - pandaman 5y ago
        Non-citizens do not have the right of citizens, you might have known already, but one can be denied the green card and/or not allowed into the country for having a communicable disease like AIDS or TB. If I follow your logic, it's okay to have AIDS, TB, leprosy, etc. passports too?
        ceejayoz 5y ago
        > If I follow your logic, it's okay to have AIDS, TB, leprosy, etc. passports too? If they start spreading exponentially via aerosols, sure.
        pandaman 5y ago
        But people with AIDS are not allowed into the country already, why you add conditions? Does the Constitution say anything about aerosols? Besides, TB spreads with the aerosols so we should have the BCG vaccine mandates, right?
        ceejayoz 5y ago
        It's fairly obvious that TB is not spreading like COVID does in the United States. If it were, restrictions would be sensible. (I would note that if you have TB, you may wind up subject to a quarantine order. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tb-patient-quarantine-conditions-insane/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tb-patient-quarantine-condition...) Constitutionally, SCOTUS has ruled on the point in the past. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts > Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905), was a United States Supreme Court case in which the Court upheld the authority of states to enforce compulsory vaccination laws. The Court's decision articulated the view that individual liberty is not absolute and is subject to the police power of the state.
- rejectedandsad 5y ago
  I’m referring to masks. Mandating vaccines is fine and good.
  - shapefrog 5y ago
    So you are ok with injecting things into peoples bodies, by force. But covering the nose and mouth, when around others, is beyond the pale?
    - rejectedandsad 5y ago
      Yes, because I’ve gotten vaccinated and I shouldn’t be continued to be punished with restrictions.