17 ms·

the next logical question is why are they the only tv's available? the reason is the same reason that phones are getting bigger and laptops are getting thinner.

by risho 5y ago

the next logical question is why are they the only tv's available? the reason is the same reason that phones are getting bigger and laptops are getting thinner. (hint it's not some grand conspiracy to ruin your life or to fuck the consumer) the answer is because that's what people buy.

capitainenemo 5y ago
The last TV I purchased I had to spend a $10-$20 premium over the smart model with similar specs (from a slightly more reputable manufacturer at that) just to get a non-smart model. The data mining definitely plays a huge part.
- dalmo3 5y ago
  Care to share which model? Last time I checked, the few dumb TVs I could find were at least 30% more expensive than a similar smart one.
  - capitainenemo 5y ago
    I've had the TV for about 5 years now so no information I could share would be too helpful. It's got a 1920x1080 resolution and seems to work well with the living room PC, that's good enough for me.
- wwn_se 5y ago
  If you don't give it your wifi password it will not be smart? Its not like they come with a sim card... I would however love a smart tv with an open stack where I can control the software.
  - capitainenemo 5y ago
    Personally I didn't want passive collection phoning home if, at any point, anyone connected it to anything, and there is also the possibility of connecting to open access points. And, well, saw no reason for leaving around untrusted unreliable crud I couldn't remove. It was worth a modest markup to get rid of it.
Dylan16807 5y ago
> because that's what people buy. Not quite. In a world where consumers don't care at all, smart TVs will take over because they're more profitable. It would take a notable consumer preference against smart TVs just for manufacturers to be neutral.
rtkwe 5y ago
Sure but they're also juicy extra revenue streams for the manufacturers from ads and behavior/watch data even without the neigh conspiratorial spying people speculate about.
powerslacker 5y ago
Wait a minute now. TV manufacturers are mining the frames from video played on them in order to detect which shows people are watching. They then sell that data to 3rd parties (typically advertisers and data brokers). It's maybe not some "grand conspiracy", but there is a definite profit motive to push smart TVs and only smart TVs. It is far more profitable than a one time sale since you can sell data over and over. I only personally learned this after meeting some engineers working on such a data mining project, but its fairly well documented: https://www.businessinsider.com/smart-tv-data-collection-advertising-2019-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/smart-tv-data-collection-adv...
- kelnos 5y ago
  Sure, but I think the point is that it's more likely that the idea of an internet-connected TV originally came from the perceived usefulness of having a TV that could come preloaded with various apps (Netflix, etc.). Certainly I think that's a valuable feature to have. But of course now that the TVs have an always-on internet connection, the manufacturers have realized they can extract more revenue (recurring revenue, at that) by spying on their customers and selling the data. So of course, they do it, and most people don't even know they're doing it, so there's little outrage from the mainstream. > there is a definite profit motive to push smart TVs and only smart TVs I would imagine that most customers would prefer a TV with Netflix (or whatever) than a TV without Netflix. At that point it becomes a decision of whether it's worth it to incur the cost of having a separate SKU without the "smart" bits, and it may not be. Yes, the "smartness" benefits the manufacturer (to the detriment of customer privacy), but I would bet that even if all the sketchy bits were banned tomorrow, manufacturers would still make and sell about the same number of smart TVs.
- actually_a_dog 5y ago
  Luckily, you can block them: https://lazyadmin.nl/home-network/how-to-block-ads-on-your-smart-tv/ https://lazyadmin.nl/home-network/how-to-block-ads-on-your-s...
  - jen20 5y ago
    One should not have to, nor should they have to explain to the less technically literate ow to. The practice is disgusting and needs to be handled by regulation with teeth.
actually_a_dog 5y ago
Actually, it's because they show you ads. For example: https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/articles/00225587 https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/articles/00225587 https://www.theverge.com/tldr/2021/3/10/22323790/lg-oled-tv-commercials-content-store https://www.theverge.com/tldr/2021/3/10/22323790/lg-oled-tv-... https://digiday.com/future-of-tv/samsung-pitches-advertisers-and-streamers-on-ads-that-take-over-its-smart-tv-platform/ https://digiday.com/future-of-tv/samsung-pitches-advertisers...
setr 5y ago
Remember 3DTV’s? For like 5 years, all TV’s being sold had 3D support. Not because consumers wanted it — it was because the industry believed consumers would want it. Industries don’t turn on a dime.. Market forces don’t correct small issues in short timeframes — and smart TV’s are not problematic enough to meet their immediate demise (but sufficiently awful that they eventually will — alongside car infotainment systems)
- p2t2p 5y ago
  > alongside car infotainment systems I don't know if market has corrected those or Apple did. I couldn't care less about my car's infotainment system as long as the screen is 7+ inches and capable of Apple CarPlay.
  - rrrhys 5y ago
    > capable of Apple CarPlay. E.g. you care plenty.
    - p2t2p 5y ago
      I wouldn't call a glorified screen mirroring an "infotainment system".
      - rrrhys 5y ago
        I've got a pre-CarPlay OEM infotainment and can confirm, they are pretty shit. The screen is hard to get it to register a tap, the corners are dead, and the UI is very 2013 (It's a 2013 toyota, so I guess more like 2009 UI).
- stainforth 5y ago
  Supply side is the first side in what exists
gsich 5y ago
Well of course. It's the only thing you sell.

by risho 5y ago

capitainenemo 5y ago

The last TV I purchased I had to spend a $10-$20 premium over the smart model with similar specs (from a slightly more reputable manufacturer at that) just to get a non-smart model. The data mining definitely plays a huge part.

dalmo3 5y ago
Care to share which model? Last time I checked, the few dumb TVs I could find were at least 30% more expensive than a similar smart one.
- capitainenemo 5y ago
  I've had the TV for about 5 years now so no information I could share would be too helpful. It's got a 1920x1080 resolution and seems to work well with the living room PC, that's good enough for me.
wwn_se 5y ago
If you don't give it your wifi password it will not be smart? Its not like they come with a sim card... I would however love a smart tv with an open stack where I can control the software.
- capitainenemo 5y ago
  Personally I didn't want passive collection phoning home if, at any point, anyone connected it to anything, and there is also the possibility of connecting to open access points. And, well, saw no reason for leaving around untrusted unreliable crud I couldn't remove. It was worth a modest markup to get rid of it.

Dylan16807 5y ago

> because that's what people buy. Not quite. In a world where consumers don't care at all, smart TVs will take over because they're more profitable. It would take a notable consumer preference against smart TVs just for manufacturers to be neutral.

rtkwe 5y ago

Sure but they're also juicy extra revenue streams for the manufacturers from ads and behavior/watch data even without the neigh conspiratorial spying people speculate about.

powerslacker 5y ago

Wait a minute now. TV manufacturers are mining the frames from video played on them in order to detect which shows people are watching. They then sell that data to 3rd parties (typically advertisers and data brokers). It's maybe not some "grand conspiracy", but there is a definite profit motive to push smart TVs and only smart TVs. It is far more profitable than a one time sale since you can sell data over and over. I only personally learned this after meeting some engineers working on such a data mining project, but its fairly well documented: https://www.businessinsider.com/smart-tv-data-collection-advertising-2019-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/smart-tv-data-collection-adv...

kelnos 5y ago
Sure, but I think the point is that it's more likely that the idea of an internet-connected TV originally came from the perceived usefulness of having a TV that could come preloaded with various apps (Netflix, etc.). Certainly I think that's a valuable feature to have. But of course now that the TVs have an always-on internet connection, the manufacturers have realized they can extract more revenue (recurring revenue, at that) by spying on their customers and selling the data. So of course, they do it, and most people don't even know they're doing it, so there's little outrage from the mainstream. > there is a definite profit motive to push smart TVs and only smart TVs I would imagine that most customers would prefer a TV with Netflix (or whatever) than a TV without Netflix. At that point it becomes a decision of whether it's worth it to incur the cost of having a separate SKU without the "smart" bits, and it may not be. Yes, the "smartness" benefits the manufacturer (to the detriment of customer privacy), but I would bet that even if all the sketchy bits were banned tomorrow, manufacturers would still make and sell about the same number of smart TVs.
actually_a_dog 5y ago
Luckily, you can block them: https://lazyadmin.nl/home-network/how-to-block-ads-on-your-smart-tv/ https://lazyadmin.nl/home-network/how-to-block-ads-on-your-s...
- jen20 5y ago
  One should not have to, nor should they have to explain to the less technically literate ow to. The practice is disgusting and needs to be handled by regulation with teeth.

actually_a_dog 5y ago

Actually, it's because they show you ads. For example: https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/articles/00225587 https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/articles/00225587 https://www.theverge.com/tldr/2021/3/10/22323790/lg-oled-tv-commercials-content-store https://www.theverge.com/tldr/2021/3/10/22323790/lg-oled-tv-... https://digiday.com/future-of-tv/samsung-pitches-advertisers-and-streamers-on-ads-that-take-over-its-smart-tv-platform/ https://digiday.com/future-of-tv/samsung-pitches-advertisers...

setr 5y ago

Remember 3DTV’s? For like 5 years, all TV’s being sold had 3D support. Not because consumers wanted it — it was because the industry believed consumers would want it. Industries don’t turn on a dime.. Market forces don’t correct small issues in short timeframes — and smart TV’s are not problematic enough to meet their immediate demise (but sufficiently awful that they eventually will — alongside car infotainment systems)

p2t2p 5y ago
> alongside car infotainment systems I don't know if market has corrected those or Apple did. I couldn't care less about my car's infotainment system as long as the screen is 7+ inches and capable of Apple CarPlay.
- rrrhys 5y ago
  > capable of Apple CarPlay. E.g. you care plenty.
  - p2t2p 5y ago
    I wouldn't call a glorified screen mirroring an "infotainment system".
    - rrrhys 5y ago
      I've got a pre-CarPlay OEM infotainment and can confirm, they are pretty shit. The screen is hard to get it to register a tap, the corners are dead, and the UI is very 2013 (It's a 2013 toyota, so I guess more like 2009 UI).
stainforth 5y ago
Supply side is the first side in what exists

gsich 5y ago

Well of course. It's the only thing you sell.