5 ms·

> Data are liability Data is gold

by codegladiator 5y ago

monkeybutton 5y ago
Having a large amount of gold sitting around is also a big liability too, so the analogy works in more than one way.
- jdavis703 5y ago
  This is not how GAAP accounting works.
  - csomar 5y ago
    That's actually how GAAP accounting works. Having a large amount of gold is both an asset and a liability (see double-entry accounting).
    - dredmorbius 5y ago
      That's not the sense in which I find "data are a liability" to be useful. Double-entry bookkeeping records transactions as debits and credits to different entities. "Data are a liability* is a recognition that whilst there may be a positive value to data, there is also a probabalistic negative value, especially in the event of unauthorised access or disclosure. That's not a double-entry value, where debits equal credits, it's an independent value, independent of the asset value, dependent on the nature of the data, the type of disclosure, the subject of the data, and the identity of the actor(s) who gain access to the information. The role is the same as that of any other business liability risk. And again, is independent of the asset value. As with other liabilities, the actual extent and probability of the liability-based cost is often unclear, and may change with time, particularly as the environment changes.
  - dredmorbius 5y ago
    For those disagreeing, this is a correct statement.
- maneesh 5y ago
  That is usually called an asset.
  - Kye 5y ago
    Banks record deposits as liabilities because they're owed to someone. Law enforcement with sufficient pretense to get a judge to sign a warrant is owed any data Google holds. Data is a liability.
    - dredmorbius 5y ago
      Whilst true, that's not how "data are a liability" uses the terms. In banking or brokerages, loans and credit extended are assets as they're value owed to the bank by others. Deposits, held certificates (e.g., stocks), or stored valuables (gold in a safety deposit box) are liabilities because others can make claims on them. Checking accounts are literally "demand deposits" in the sense that the funds are demandable at any time by the accountholder. Many savings accounts actually have limits on the amount or rate of withdrawal. These are typically large and generous, but they may exist.
- dredmorbius 5y ago
  Gold you hold is an asset. It creates a liability, in the sense of associated risks of holding a large liquid portable store of wealth. You might find the storage location burgled, yourself kidnapped, associates (family, household or business help, etc.) betraying you, etc. The overall consequence of those risks is not necessarily the same as the value of the asset, and could well greatly exceed it.
  - godelski 5y ago
    When everyone around you is trying to get your gold, then for all practical purposes it is still a liability. If you can convert that gold into a different asset that is just as valuable but fewer people are trying to get a hold of it, then you maintain your assets without the liability. Let's be clear. Something can both be an asset AND a liability. These are not mutually exclusive.
    - dredmorbius 5y ago
      Something can both be an asset AND a liability. These are not mutually exclusive. That's precisely my argument, as I've expanded elsehwere in this thread. What (gold|data) (is|are) an (asset|liability) is not, however, is offsetting assets/liabilities in the double-entry bookkeeping sense, as some here seem to think / be arguing (especially: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28268433 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28268433 ... my correction follows). Your usage is that gold possession becomes part of ones threat model, and is thus a liability. That's an actuarial, not an accounting, concept.
azalemeth 5y ago
Data are tradtionally plural! To be horrendously pedantic, from the Oxford English Dictionary: > Data > ... > 2. As a mass noun. > a. Related items of (chiefly numerical) information considered collectively, typically obtained by scientific work and used for reference, analysis, or calculation. Cf. datum (n. 1a.) [1] https://www.oed.com/view/Entry/296948?rskey=IhOFGI&result=1&isAdvanced=true https://www.oed.com/view/Entry/296948?rskey=IhOFGI&result=1&...
- wlesieutre 5y ago
  That sent me to a login page, but use of “data” as a singular mass noun like “information” is pretty universally accepted. Some discussion on Wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_(word) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_(word) Their citation of “Data is most often used as a singular mass noun in everyday usage” points to New Oxford Dictionary of English, 1999, so it’s not super recent shift.
- meepmorp 5y ago
  You're being horribly pedantic by undermining your own point? The definition you quote indicates that data has become a mass noun, i.e., non-countable. The reference to the word datum is to contrast this with part of the previous definition.

> Data are liability Data is gold

monkeybutton 5y ago

Having a large amount of gold sitting around is also a big liability too, so the analogy works in more than one way.

jdavis703 5y ago
This is not how GAAP accounting works.
- csomar 5y ago
  That's actually how GAAP accounting works. Having a large amount of gold is both an asset and a liability (see double-entry accounting).
  - dredmorbius 5y ago
    That's not the sense in which I find "data are a liability" to be useful. Double-entry bookkeeping records transactions as debits and credits to different entities. "Data are a liability* is a recognition that whilst there may be a positive value to data, there is also a probabalistic negative value, especially in the event of unauthorised access or disclosure. That's not a double-entry value, where debits equal credits, it's an independent value, independent of the asset value, dependent on the nature of the data, the type of disclosure, the subject of the data, and the identity of the actor(s) who gain access to the information. The role is the same as that of any other business liability risk. And again, is independent of the asset value. As with other liabilities, the actual extent and probability of the liability-based cost is often unclear, and may change with time, particularly as the environment changes.
- dredmorbius 5y ago
  For those disagreeing, this is a correct statement.
maneesh 5y ago
That is usually called an asset.
- Kye 5y ago
  Banks record deposits as liabilities because they're owed to someone. Law enforcement with sufficient pretense to get a judge to sign a warrant is owed any data Google holds. Data is a liability.
  - dredmorbius 5y ago
    Whilst true, that's not how "data are a liability" uses the terms. In banking or brokerages, loans and credit extended are assets as they're value owed to the bank by others. Deposits, held certificates (e.g., stocks), or stored valuables (gold in a safety deposit box) are liabilities because others can make claims on them. Checking accounts are literally "demand deposits" in the sense that the funds are demandable at any time by the accountholder. Many savings accounts actually have limits on the amount or rate of withdrawal. These are typically large and generous, but they may exist.
dredmorbius 5y ago
Gold you hold is an asset. It creates a liability, in the sense of associated risks of holding a large liquid portable store of wealth. You might find the storage location burgled, yourself kidnapped, associates (family, household or business help, etc.) betraying you, etc. The overall consequence of those risks is not necessarily the same as the value of the asset, and could well greatly exceed it.
- godelski 5y ago
  When everyone around you is trying to get your gold, then for all practical purposes it is still a liability. If you can convert that gold into a different asset that is just as valuable but fewer people are trying to get a hold of it, then you maintain your assets without the liability. Let's be clear. Something can both be an asset AND a liability. These are not mutually exclusive.
  - dredmorbius 5y ago
    Something can both be an asset AND a liability. These are not mutually exclusive. That's precisely my argument, as I've expanded elsehwere in this thread. What (gold|data) (is|are) an (asset|liability) is not, however, is offsetting assets/liabilities in the double-entry bookkeeping sense, as some here seem to think / be arguing (especially: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28268433 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28268433 ... my correction follows). Your usage is that gold possession becomes part of ones threat model, and is thus a liability. That's an actuarial, not an accounting, concept.

azalemeth 5y ago

Data are tradtionally plural! To be horrendously pedantic, from the Oxford English Dictionary: > Data > ... > 2. As a mass noun. > a. Related items of (chiefly numerical) information considered collectively, typically obtained by scientific work and used for reference, analysis, or calculation. Cf. datum (n. 1a.) [1] https://www.oed.com/view/Entry/296948?rskey=IhOFGI&result=1&isAdvanced=true https://www.oed.com/view/Entry/296948?rskey=IhOFGI&result=1&...

wlesieutre 5y ago
That sent me to a login page, but use of “data” as a singular mass noun like “information” is pretty universally accepted. Some discussion on Wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_(word) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_(word) Their citation of “Data is most often used as a singular mass noun in everyday usage” points to New Oxford Dictionary of English, 1999, so it’s not super recent shift.
meepmorp 5y ago
You're being horribly pedantic by undermining your own point? The definition you quote indicates that data has become a mass noun, i.e., non-countable. The reference to the word datum is to contrast this with part of the previous definition.