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There is no mention of any failures of the occupation, atrocities committed by NATO forces or the old Afghan government, just an axiomatic belief that imperiali

There is no mention of any failures of the occupation, atrocities committed by NATO forces or the old Afghan government, just an axiomatic belief that imperialism is good. Very on brand for the Economist.

1cvmask 5y ago
Same sentiments Mark Twain said during the genocides in the Philippines during the Spanish-American wars. https://www.esquiremag.ph/long-reads/features/mark-twain-philippines-a00304-20200104 https://www.esquiremag.ph/long-reads/features/mark-twain-phi...
dcolkitt 5y ago
Whatever valid criticisms exist, they’re simply incomparable to the insanely evil human rights abomination that is the Taliban. It’d be like asking after the Nazi invasion of France “why is nobody talking about the human rights abuses in Algeria?” EDIT: Downvotes for the very controversial opinion of... checks notes... saying the Taliban has less respect for human rights abuses than the United States.
- cududa 5y ago
  …you’re aware the Nazis occupied Algeria, yes?
  - dcolkitt 5y ago
    How is that relevant?
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  You’re not wrong about the Taliban, but it is also untenable for American forces to remain in a country after trillions of dollars, two decades, and so many lives were lost when Afghans were never going to fight for themselves. Evacuate everyone who wants out, leave behind those who choose to exist under Taliban rule. Treat it like Cuba but with more support for those who intend to flee (arranged safe passage through diplomatic and military supply chains, for example).
  - dcolkitt 5y ago
    I completely agree. But I object to OP’s characterization of “both sides are bad”. This is very much a case of evil triumphing over good. Not saying there are any other options at this point, but it’s stupid to celebrate a victory by the Taliban
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- trasz 5y ago
  How many people have been killed by Taliban, compared to the number of victims of US invasion?
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
    According to the United Nations, the Taliban and its allies were responsible for 76% of civilian casualties in Afghanistan in 2009, 75% in 2010 and 80% in 2011
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- bsder 5y ago
  It is easy to naysay and complain. The problem is ... what does a positive outcome for Afghanistan look like and how do you get there? And, if we couldn't get there in 20 years, should we be there at all? Apparently, there is not enough fight in any group in Afghanistan to oppose the Taliban. So, now what?
credit_guy 5y ago
> just an axiomatic belief So you prefer a data-driven belief, don't you? Let's see, this ICC probe [1] (ICC = International Criminal Court, a court that the US does not recognize, and also a court that it not known to be US-friendly) alleges: >> Taliban actions are believed to have resulted in tens of thousands of civilian casualties [...] The Afghan security forces are being investigated for several war crimes against hundreds of civilians [...] The U.S. armed forces and CIA are now under investigation for war crimes against around eighty victims So, the Taliban made tens of thousands of victims, the Afghan security forces hundreds, and the US armed forces "around 80". Your turn, please. [1] https://www.cfr.org/article/iccs-probe-atrocities-afghanistan-what-know https://www.cfr.org/article/iccs-probe-atrocities-afghanista...

1cvmask 5y ago

Same sentiments Mark Twain said during the genocides in the Philippines during the Spanish-American wars. https://www.esquiremag.ph/long-reads/features/mark-twain-philippines-a00304-20200104 https://www.esquiremag.ph/long-reads/features/mark-twain-phi...

dcolkitt 5y ago

Whatever valid criticisms exist, they’re simply incomparable to the insanely evil human rights abomination that is the Taliban. It’d be like asking after the Nazi invasion of France “why is nobody talking about the human rights abuses in Algeria?” EDIT: Downvotes for the very controversial opinion of... checks notes... saying the Taliban has less respect for human rights abuses than the United States.

cududa 5y ago
…you’re aware the Nazis occupied Algeria, yes?
- dcolkitt 5y ago
  How is that relevant?
toomuchtodo 5y ago
You’re not wrong about the Taliban, but it is also untenable for American forces to remain in a country after trillions of dollars, two decades, and so many lives were lost when Afghans were never going to fight for themselves. Evacuate everyone who wants out, leave behind those who choose to exist under Taliban rule. Treat it like Cuba but with more support for those who intend to flee (arranged safe passage through diplomatic and military supply chains, for example).
- dcolkitt 5y ago
  I completely agree. But I object to OP’s characterization of “both sides are bad”. This is very much a case of evil triumphing over good. Not saying there are any other options at this point, but it’s stupid to celebrate a victory by the Taliban
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
trasz 5y ago
How many people have been killed by Taliban, compared to the number of victims of US invasion?
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
  According to the United Nations, the Taliban and its allies were responsible for 76% of civilian casualties in Afghanistan in 2009, 75% in 2010 and 80% in 2011
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
bsder 5y ago
It is easy to naysay and complain. The problem is ... what does a positive outcome for Afghanistan look like and how do you get there? And, if we couldn't get there in 20 years, should we be there at all? Apparently, there is not enough fight in any group in Afghanistan to oppose the Taliban. So, now what?

credit_guy 5y ago

> just an axiomatic belief So you prefer a data-driven belief, don't you? Let's see, this ICC probe [1] (ICC = International Criminal Court, a court that the US does not recognize, and also a court that it not known to be US-friendly) alleges: >> Taliban actions are believed to have resulted in tens of thousands of civilian casualties [...] The Afghan security forces are being investigated for several war crimes against hundreds of civilians [...] The U.S. armed forces and CIA are now under investigation for war crimes against around eighty victims So, the Taliban made tens of thousands of victims, the Afghan security forces hundreds, and the US armed forces "around 80". Your turn, please. [1] https://www.cfr.org/article/iccs-probe-atrocities-afghanistan-what-know https://www.cfr.org/article/iccs-probe-atrocities-afghanista...