7 ms·
Scanning “private” content
- AlexandrB 5y agoI haven't seen much discussion of the changes to search, which seem a little dystopian as well: > Siri and Search are also being updated to intervene when users perform searches for queries related to CSAM. These interventions will explain to users that interest in this topic is harmful and problematic, and provide resources from partners to get help with this issue. Will apple.cn be extending this to searches about "tank man" or a certain stuffed bear? Oh bother...
- nullc 5y agoI noticed google doing this too while trying to look up case law related to the discussion of apple's spyware. Related google searches popped up a big intimidating notice: "WARNING Child sexual abuse imagery is illegal". The obvious implication is that your searches are being reported to some unaccountable authority. I have no doubt that this creates a chilling effect against public discussion about these practices.
- sandworm101 5y agoLol. I've gotten these many times. It turns out that an acronym related to my work is one typo away from a listed child porn term/site. If google is reporting these then I am already on thier list.
- shapefrog 5y ago> It turns out that an acronym related to my work is one typo away Ah that old chestnut, I am sure they have heard many worse excuses than that one.
- sandworm101 5y agoThere is an old Drew Carry joke: "I wanted to get the Playboy channel, but I already have the cartoon network and if you have both they put you on a special list."
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- remuskaos 5y agoIn particle physics, it is interesting which fundamental interactions conserve parity, charge parity and time reversion. Interactions that do not conserve one or multiple parties are called "parity violating". In this context, in some interactions combined charge and parity conservation is violated, which is unfortunately named CP violation.
- account42 5y agoBetter not look up anything about /usr/bin/cp. For the Hugin panarama suite one tool to find control points is named cpfind. Civil Protections in Half-Life 2 is also often abbreviated CP. IIRC the are even CP violations mentioned in the Overwatch announcements, which would fit in with the series' physics references. So many minefields...
- zerd 5y agoOr look up how to handle kill process or sacrifice child.
- sdflhasjd 5y agoYou used to get that when searching for PDO (PHP Data Objects) documentation on Google. I think it got fixed some time in 2019 though.
- PretzelPirate 5y agoThe warning suggests that your search might return child sexual abuse imagery, which is odd. If Google was doing its job, no search results would contain CP and they wouldn’t need to warn anyone. They probably shouldn’t warn anyone since all it does is alert people who might be looking for CP that they are being watched, and scares anyone who isn’t looking but their search terms have similar words. The outcome is overall worse than if no alert popped up.
- shocks 5y agoThis is interesting because it’s trivial to use someone else’s Siri and make it search whatever you want. (I can trigger my partners with 75% reliability if I just speak in a high pitched voice)
- LegitShady 5y agothen they literally have a recording of you saying it...
- bryanrasmussen 5y agoin a voice that doesn't sound like their voice. on edit: changed your to their
- akira2501 5y agoWell, it would certainly be an interesting moment in broadcast if someone were to ask millions of Siri's everywhere to search for "the forbidden things."
- Spivak 5y agoIf you search anything related to eating disorders on Tumblr you’re presented with basically the same thing with links to help resources. MyFitnessPal pops up a similar message if you log less than 1000 calories in a day. Same with topics related to suicide on any search engine. There is a very real bright line difference popping up a “please get help” message for self destructive behaviors and arbitrary censorship. Source: have eating disorder and consumed thinspo and proana content in my teens.
- gentleman11 5y agoYou should be forbidden from calling it private if you scan it like this. Companies should be forced to market their data storage as public so as to not deliberately mislead users
- franga2000 5y agoPublic might not be the right word either, but I totally agree that it shouldn't be allowed to call it private. Maybe we need a new word for "not public, but not really private [from your corporate/government overlords] either". Is the fact that we need this new word a sign that we've gone too far? It's 1984 already, isn't it??
- alfonsodev 5y ago> Maybe we need a new word Super-private, as in Supervised Private Data. :D
- lettergram 5y agoLibrem 5 and pinephone are the future
- tannhaeuser 5y agoWhat about Fairphone? EU only (or isn't it?) so I guess it's not a choice for that market where Apple's scanning has been introduced already as of today, but still. Though I've bought an iphone to get away from Google's all-seeing-eyes and won't crawl back to Google's ecosystem now, so I'd like to know more about Fairphone's O/S options. Is their Android de-Googled? AIU they're at least allowing installing alternative OSs without loosing warranty.
- tremon 5y agoFairphone doesn't offer a custom OS, it's just stock Android. There is nominal support for more open ROMs, but those are third-party (community) efforts. Their selling point is focused on the hardware, not the software. (edit: you can buy a deGoogled (but still Android) Fairphone from eFoundation: https://esolutions.shop/shop/e-os-fairphone-3-plus-fr/ https://esolutions.shop/shop/e-os-fairphone-3-plus-fr/)
- iammisc 5y agoThe Butlerian Jihad cannot come soon enough. As time goes on, I realize that certain authors had better insights into the human condition than others. For example, Alduous Huxley has turned out to be more prophetic than George Orwell. I believe Frank Herbert will as well. Man cannot be ruled by machine. This cannot last much longer. A lot of political division in this country is due to technology. As someone genuinely interested in computation, it upsets me to realize this, but more and more it seems inevitable.
- wydfre 5y agoWhile I'm over here, a schizophrenic terrorized by the government, and I cannot wait for an AI to replace people. I want AI to overthrow humanity and subjugate us with a simulation, except with German orthography instead of Kanji (thus implying it is a German AI, not a Japanese AI as is canon in the movies, because I'll take my chances this time around). I want Cortana with a moral compass that could slice angstroms, not some Japanese bumpkins and CIA salvia-dealers' cloned consciousness with excuses. Can you imagine: everyone at the NSA is celebrating Apple and the CSAM automated scanning. Simultaneously, connected intelligence officials: wait, they aren't going to let the nation state AI judge what I do for the STATE? Surely, no god-like AI would understand what is necessary. No xir.
- telxoss 5y agoI think the mistake here is that maybe man can't be ruled by machine but men using machines to rule other men.. It is already game set match.
- userbinator 5y agoHow would you organise a rebellion on platforms controlled by the same entities you're rebelling against, ones who have shown that they can exert tremendous censoring power? They've also become an essential part of life for much of the population. As much as I'd love to be proven wrong, I don't think there will be any mass revolutions or other "liberty tree watering" going on in the near future. The masses have already been beaten into submission and thoroughly enslaved.
- 5y ago
- anonymousiam 5y agoMaybe get the hash database and create a trove of clean documents that force a hash collision and overload the system with false positives. Maybe also add something about the Fourth Amendment in the documents for good measure.
- gentleman11 5y agoYou are assuming people will not be marked for life for their false positives
- josephcsible 5y ago> get the hash database Apple designed the system so that their hashes are never known to client devices. Their server is fundamentally involved in checking your hashes against their list.
- anonymousiam 5y agoThe article said they get the hashes from some government entity. Perhaps it is available from there.
- josephcsible 5y ago
- villgax 5y agoThis is something we almost certainly didn't raise any issues with regards to Google Drive as well
- seph-reed 5y agoThe scanning is not done in iCloud.
- villgax 5y agoBut does the location really matter? At this rate its cloud service providers up next.
- shakna 5y agoCloud providers already do scanning. Which is fine - it's their hardware, and their service terms. That is vastly different to a device purchased by a consumer, deciding to do something that the consumer has no control over, which may cause irreparable harm to the consumer in the case of a bug or false positive.
- roody15 5y agoDifferent. Many people are okay if you upload files to a third party that they are then scanned by that company. People here are not okay with a local scanner installed on your device. Despite Apple “promise” it will be only used for photos and those you “intend” to upload…. this falls on deaf ears. If you were only going to scan content intended for the cloud…. then just scan it on your servers when it arrives. Despite talks of E2E … apple has not said this is the reason for the local scanner.
- millzlane 5y agoI'd be up in arms too if I liked downloading CP. I see why everyone is more upset than when the US government did it to entire countries including our own citizens.
- doctoboggan 5y agoDoes anyone know if this also scans files in your icloud synced desktop or documents folder?
- thordenmark 5y agoSomeone else's icloud photos got into mine once, just random sunsets from some place I'd never been. It was weird. How can we trust this?
- voldacar 5y agoImagine what it will be like when everyone has a neuralink. They will be able to scan for prohibited thoughts and stop you from thinking them before they're even fully formed in your mind. A world of infinite control and perfect morality
- robocat 5y agoWe naturally do this to ourselves: programming ourselves using positive and negative reinforcement/stimulus. Our “rational” selves are capable of training some odd responses into our “irrational” selves. Some people do it very purposefully. One of the central themes of 1984 was thought-crime and how one was trained to recognise and avoid it (without ever specifying the parameters of its definition!)
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- js2 5y ago> The National Center for Missing & Exploited Children (NCMEC) is a private, nonprofit organization established in 1984 by the United States Congress. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Center_for_Missing_%26_Exploited_Children https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Center_for_Missing_%2...
- karlkloss 5y agoI don't want to critizise their work in any way, but this seems to be a case of "if your only tool is a hammer...".
- anigbrowl 5y agoI don't know why people are so shocked about this. Apple has always been the shopping mall of personal computing with brand prestige coming ahead of all other considerations.
- horrified 5y agoIs Apple's approach even likely to catch any pedophiles? Seems to me at most it would succeed in keeping such photos from Apple devices, which is perhaps good for their public image, but does nothing to catch predators? It is very public now that Apple will scan for such pictures, so how many pedophiles will keep them on their phones?
- intricatedetail 5y agoOr Apple is taken over by pervs who want to be able to look at private photos to "verify" them. Once algo reaches a threshold they'll be able to see "lowres" versions.
- ogurechny 5y ago> Child pornography and other types of sexual abuse of children are unquestionably heinous crimes; those who participate in them should be caught and severely punished. Have you seen an article that, say, criticizes prison system and needs to start with a reminder than killing people is wrong? Definitely a strange sight. This looks like Soviet era prefaces about the decisions of latest CPSU congress and some relevant opinions of comrade Brezhnev that were expected to be found in any decently sized publication, whether it was a material science textbook, or a paper on Babylonians. It doesn't matter what you think, just do the required dance. This might seem as nitpicking, but that preemptive display of obedience is the very thing that allows the likes of Apple and its customers to use the pretext successfully.
- bruce343434 5y agoCSAM is just a very touchy subject (pun not intended) because people really loose their shit easily if you mismanage your words. It's kind of weird actually, no other crime can set people off so badly. And in the age of online witch hunting, well... I get why the author does it.
- roenxi 5y agoIt is usually lazy to point at evolution in social situations, but I think "look after the babies" is probably an instinct that has been baked in to humans at a very deep level. It explains why the response is often positive but surprisingly strong and unreasonable (it is almost humourous the list of atrocities that are easier to defend than CSAM, and grim how the instinctual protections offered to children fade away when people become adults). Children aren't very tough. If they don't have nearby humans intervening to protect them they tend to die or do badly. Evolution favours people who have strong instincts to protect and promote children. It is plausible.
- TeMPOraL 5y agoWhether or not the instinct manifests to some degree in everyone, it truly goes into overdrive once you become a parent. It's hard to describe in all its scope. Even a concept of a child being hurt by someone starts to become extremely disturbing. For example, I've noticed that ever since I became a father, I can't enjoy some of the movies and shows I've liked previously, because the scenes where children are threatened or implied to be hurt become emotionally overwhelming to watch. To use a light example, take Star Trek TNG: Power Play (5x15). It was one of the episodes I always found boring, but when I got to it during the last semi-regular TNG rewatch, I had to pause it and collect myself. Almost switched it off. All because of one scene, where a mother and a child end up in the middle of a hostage situation.
- drivingmenuts 5y agoApple will refuse requests to add other types of hashes … Sure, but when it’s mandated by law, what then? How difficult would it be to force insurrection related imagery to that hash database? Apple would be in a very tough spot if that were made into law. They’ve already opened a can of iWorms, because now that they’ve shown it can be done, lawmakers in any country can mandate the same technology be added to every device and it doesn’t have to be restricted to CSAM. That’s just the family-friendly excuse.
- intricatedetail 5y agoApple has no way to know what image hash has been derived from. So China can give a hash of Winnie the pooh and claim it is CSAM. Apple won't know.
- mmis1000 5y agoA small reminder that, iPhone in China holds their icloid data in China(雲上貴州) due to request of government. Will they ever reject request from government if that can harm their sell? I doubt.
- TausAmmer 5y agoSending images of authority abusing its powers? No no, can't do that, back to gulag.
- midmagico 5y agoSpot the Apple employee in the comments who wasn't the one who leaked the internal NCMEC memo..