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Comma Three [video]
- rvz 5y agoWell done to them. One of the rare startups I've seen that are able to enter into this fierce assisted driving systems market without the hype, lies and deception with less funding and still profitable with hardware. That's how you do it. This recent consumer report on comma.ai on the 'Overall Ratings Results' (page 6) looks very promising. [0] EDIT: Care to elaborate as to what is the matter my comment about this hardware startup? Is what I just said about them all false? [0] https://data.consumerreports.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/consumer-reports-active-driving-assistance-systems-november-16-2020.pdf https://data.consumerreports.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/...
- blackcat201 5y agoI am surprised to see Comma Two in a consumer report not to mention out perform all other automative company including Tesla (probably the older version?). I remember in one of Geohot twitch stream bragging about their driver monitoring being really hard to duped.
- hnskrall 5y agoBeyond based
- yao420 5y agoSo it’s a high end camera and sensor system for your car to enable some driving assistance features? $2200 plus $24 a month is a little steep.
- elif 5y agono sensor system and not a high end camera. it's consumer grade cellphone quality stuff. Single camera view single computer.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- asimpletune 5y agoI once had a chance to go to George's house for a party, and all I can say is I was totally floored. I don't think I've ever been around a group of people who were so smart and just cool in my life. When I left a part of me really wished that I had somehow met a group of people like this in college or something. Just really smart, cool people, and most of all good. Everyone there was a genuine, mission driven person who couldn't have cared less about FANG type products. True hackers.
- exogeny 5y agoI know he dropped out and certainly I'm biased as an alumnus, but that's exactly the kind of people I met in college at CMU. I like to think he, like I did, got a little bit of that spirit during many late, late nights in Wean Hall.
- rgrmrts 5y agoPlaid Parliament of Pwnage was a ton of fun too. I wished I had joined earlier and participated in more CTFs with those folks. I only actively participated in one, but it was such an awesome environment.
- changoplatanero 5y agoI got to meet him for about 10 minutes at cmu while he was waiting for his photo shoot with wired magazine. He was a nice guy but also kind of a weirdo.
- exogeny 5y agoNice guy? Weirdo? Yeah, that sounds like CMU alright. The friendliness of Pittsburgh will ensure the former; the school will exacerbate and exponentially develop the latter.
- mcast 5y agoIf you ever catch his live streams on Twitch it's interesting to watch how his brain works and how focused (yet distracted) he is coding.
- axiomdata316 5y agoI bought the comma two about a month ago and really like it. Is there anything that comma three can do that the comma two can't do like lane changes without driver checking first, self navigation?
- Microwave22 5y agocomma three will be getting nav and e2e longitudinal while comma two will only be getting e2e longitudinal. the comma three will also get longer support.
- cyrux004 5y agoNot for another few months atleast. The model they currently use on c3 was built using c2 data, but it still does perform little better because of better lens/camera on c3 Once they start getting data for c3, then they can really take advantage of c3 hardware including the wide fisheye forward facing lens by building models using that data. At launch, the model only runs on narrow cam. C3 only features in future includes navigation like you pointed out and possibly stopping at red lights and stop signs. They might try to get redlights/stop sings on c2 but its unclear if they would able either because of camera fov or processing power. lane changes without user confirmation might be possible on certain cars with blind spot monitoring but definitely not on cars without it. For confident lane changes you not only need to know if there is car in blind spot, but also speed of oncoming cars. This isnt possible without side radars or cams. So even the navigation part when it comes out will require user confirmation
- bko 5y agoI happened to check today at what Tesla is driving for "Full Self-Driving Capability" and it's now $10,000. I was originally very interested in the feature, especially since it was available on a car that starts in the low 30s, but that price point seems way out of whack. I'm just glad there's some competition that's not tied to the car manufacturers. I can't trust modern cars to have an 2014 iPad quality touch screen, I have no faith in their ability to deliver self-driving.
- fiddlerwoaroof 5y agoThey just released a $100/mo. subscription for the FSD features, but I think the more advanced FSD that supposedly can handle city streets has an additional feature flag that’s gated on your safety record or something.
- jayd16 5y ago$199/mo actually, unless you know of a deal.
- fiddlerwoaroof 5y agoI just confirmed in the app that it’s $99/mo for my 2020 3 LR AWD with the Enhanced Autopilot upgrade. https://www.tesla.com/support/full-self-driving-subscriptions#pricing https://www.tesla.com/support/full-self-driving-subscription...
- jayd16 5y agoAh, you need to have already bought EAP.
- argonaut 5y agoIf you don't trust the car manufacturers, I'm not sure why you would trust a bolt-on system from a startup that may or may not have tested the system extensively with your specific car model. If anything, the car manufacturers at least have some legal liability.
- Ambroos 5y agoHaving done a Seattle > SF > LA and back roadtrip with a Comma 2 back in March/April, this looks really cool. Even with the very modest hardware of the Comma 2, it effectively takes all the stress out of highway / stay-in-lane driving. In my Audi A3, the car's ACC handles the accelerator and brakes, and openpilot handles the steering. It made the trip a whole lot more relaxing. It was also just a whole lot of fun to set up and tinker with, the community is great! I haven't been able to observe anything close to the same quality of assistance system in any other car. Autopilot in a Model Y I drove just a few weeks ago felt plain erratic compared to openpilot, and the way it disengages completely when you make even just a small correction is really annoying. Audi's latest assistance systems silently give up as soon as the lane lines aren't 100% clear or things get a little too curvy. If they can effectively make use of the additional camera data the Comma 3 offers in future openpilot releases, this will be well worth the price tag.
- simondotau 5y ago> Autopilot in a Model Y … the way it disengages completely when you make even just a small correction is really annoying. Wait, so Autopilot disengages if you don’t apply enough torque to the steering wheel and disengages if you apply too much torque to the steering wheel? That doesn’t sound like an enjoyable autonomous driving experience.
- Ambroos 5y agoNope, it's really not enjoyable. To me it felt like fighting the car. I much prefer the "co-pilot" style of openpilot and most other lane assistance systems. Until you can trust your assistance system enough to not want to make minor corrections, Autopilot is always going to be an annoyance. This is fundamentally where Comma and Tesla differ in approach. Comma's goal is to build the best possible level 2 system that makes driving relaxed and comfortable, and delivering good intermediates in the process. Tesla's goal is to have full self-driving, and any releases on the road to FSD are going to be a compromise.
- fiddlerwoaroof 5y agoI found Autopilot annoying until I got used to how it expects you to interact with it. At this point, it really isn’t too bad. The nice thing is that a Tesla is always very clearly “under the control of Autopilot” or “under human control”. The downside is that it can be a bit frustrating figuring out how to convince Autopilot that you’re still paying attention (adjusting the the volume/cruise control, or briefly depressing the right stick is a lot less finicky than the torque sensor but you eventually get used to what the torque sensor wants.)
- stephc_int13 5y agoGlad to see some genuine tech startup trying to tackle hard problems. But I think Geohot should not try to mimic some of the silicon valley tropes. The communication is OK but sometimes borderline cringy…
- pmcollins 5y agowhat’s cringey? what tropes? the guy is a maverick, and a very entertaining and informative one —- and he’s not even in silicon valley.
- EGOTROCITY 5y agolmao a "maverick" you have to be trolling
- elevenoh 5y agoHe's authentic. Recommended trying out authenticity sometime, if you can manage negative emotions around fear/vulnerability. Then you'll more likely recognize it in others.
- cyrux004 5y agoI dont why people feel cringy. His ability to higher level concepts into simple terms is really good.
- Valkhyr 5y agoBefore watching the video, I was wondering what a "Comma Three" even is (you know, to decide if I should spend time watching the video). So I went to their website first, to find out - and I think I still don't know. Doesn't describe the product on either the top page, nor the FAQ. Looks like a GPS/Nav device with AR features - but surely that's not worth more than two grand? I have absolutely no idea if this is a good product or not (hell, I don't even need to drive where I live), but at least their website should tell me what is the selling point.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- lostsock 5y agoI agree that the website is very unclear for people who don't already know what comma do. Their meta description is better, but still not great. "Make driving chill. Upgrade your car with a comma three. comma is building the Android for cars. We have an open source driver assistance system that runs on most modern cars." It's essentially an aftermarket version of the Tesla Autopilot system.
- sen 5y agoI thought the website was pretty good at explaining it? (I don't own one or know much about it other than having heard about it a few times on HN before): > openpilot is open source software built to improve upon the existing driver assistance in most new cars on the road today. Tesla Autopilot like functionality for your Toyota, Honda, and other top brands. > While engaged, openpilot includes camera based driver monitoring that works both day and night to alert the driver when their eyes are not on the road ahead. It's basically an open-source (software) version of Tesla Autopilot and the Comma is their hardware they're selling that's already set up and running the OSS.
- numpad0 5y agoNHTSA shot it down when they tried to launch 1st gen kits. Since then they don’t say “DIY self driving kit” out front.
- throwthere 5y ago
- Clewza313 5y agoMissed a real opportunity here to call it Tres Comas. The beginning of the video complete with awkward nerd dancing in a dayglo hoodie is also pitch-perfect Silicon Valley.
- xanth 5y agoI've wondered if there is any relation. context: https://www.forbes.com/sites/ginapace/2019/11/29/diageo-launches-real-tequila-tres-comas-based-on-silicon-valley-joke/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/ginapace/2019/11/29/diageo-laun...
- gnabgib 5y agoThe Silicon Valley bit is referenced several times in the linked video, including being a reason for the original company name.. and that this edition could lead to ",,," in annual sales (complete with an expensive yacht image).
- felgueres 5y agoWhat is important about comma is the culture they seem to be building. A no frills, technology-first company that is uninterested in speculating their value. I would bet any day on a company that doesn’t thrive by shilling, with conviction to win and sheer skills turned up to 11. That’s the kind of folks that push civilization forward
- imranq 5y agoSpeaking of sheer skills, take a look at geohotz twitch streams. Just the breadth of topics is fun to watch: making your own crypto, hacking the neural chip, low size encryption.
- systemvoltage 5y agoReminds me of Carmack and Romero doing their thing with shareware games - true hackers, no fucks given, brilliant engineers, screw the corporate bullshit and get on with the business. Highly recommend - Masters of Doom audiobook: https://www.amazon.com/Masters-of-Doom-David-Kushner-audiobook/dp/B008KGXM6A https://www.amazon.com/Masters-of-Doom-David-Kushner-audiobo...
- slg 5y agoIt is weird that the general opinion of Comma on HN appears to be positive while the general opinion of Tesla's Autopilot on here is generally more negative. It seems to me that all the complaints about Tesla including marketing, safety, and technological feasibility apply as much or more for Comma.
- blamazon 5y agoI agree that Comma deserves much of the same scrutiny, but it’s not that weird that HN gives them more credit than Tesla. Comma is the hacker, open-source, upstart player in self driving space.
- piyh 5y agoExpectation management and effort to implement in your car as well. Buying a 7k "full self driving option" that's seamlessly integrated from the factory vs having to hack into your wiring to install a glorified phone.
- chabad360 5y agoYou'd be right, except IIRC Comma hasn't gotten anyone killed because of (at best) misunderstood advertising (or seeing a barrier as a road, etc.).
- slg 5y agoI don't think that is for any other reason than math. Autopilot has driven multiple orders of magnitude more miles than Comma.
- chabad360 5y agoThey do also have the highest consumer reports rating of all the autopilot-esque systems.
- ajross 5y agoYeah. We're approaching two million Teslas on the road now, and virtually everyone one of these has autopilot. I mean, yeah, with a sample size like that someone's going to find every edge case in manners ranging from hilarious to catastrophic. Just yesterday there was a guy on reddit claiming to have discovered one fork in Yosemite where, apparently, five Teslas have all wrecked their bumpers on the same rock. I believe it. At the same time, it really is hitting all those edge cases. And the worst news in months is a cranky rock of doom? I use this thing ever day. It's pretty amazing. I haven't driven Comma/OpenPilot yet, and wish them the best too. But the Tesla hate is approaching derangement at this point.
- yjamal2 5y agoJh
- dnautics 5y agostick around for the questions -- the one about how he does nav is amazing. Just stick a convnet on it and feed it in like anything else. As an aside, does anyone else get richard feynman vibes from the way geohot speaks?
- ramesh31 5y ago>As an aside, does anyone else get richard feynman vibes from the way geohot speaks? I've definitely noticed it as well. It's that very specific northeastern accent combined with his sheer enthusiasm for everything.
- ramesh31 5y agoI'm a huge Comma fan and drive every day with openpilot, but $3k for this is crazy. Think they might have jumped the gun on that.
- cyrux004 5y ago$2.2k for standard edition. same harness as comma two.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- ramesh31 5y ago>$2.2k for standard edition. same harness as comma two. I'm still on an EON from 2018 so I'll need the new harness, which makes it $2400 for the base model. Really hard to justify the price of a loaded Macbook until they have navigation integrated with lane change and highway exits. I'm honestly glad that they went all in and finally did a custom piece of hardware, but I think they could have cut $500 on the price by using an LCD screen and sold way more units.
- callesgg 5y agoIt is a bit pricey. If that opinion on the price ends up being the consumer norm they will have to lower the price eventually. If you drive allot 2400 usd could be worth it. With that said I am not sure that sales will go down due to the price.
- udev 5y agoFinally I can join the Three Comma Club [1]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzMUrB-Um1Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzMUrB-Um1Y
- system2 5y agoI would never add a 3rd party device that controls my steering or other moving component of my car. Not even electrical including the main computer of my car. I get it, this is a new niche AI type stuff. My car is the last thing I will mess with hacker type devices like this.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- CyberRabbi 5y agoKudos to the team and injecting some sobriety into this space
- jti107 5y agohttps://github.com/commaai/openpilot https://github.com/commaai/openpilot
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- TazeTSchnitzel 5y agoThis is a remarkably un-bullshit-feeling product launch.
- ChrisArchitect 5y agoNot so familiar with this guy or Comma at all? Is that odd? Niche AI/ML self driving stuff that no one outside of the specific area knows about?
- EGOTROCITY 5y agoso cringe, always find this guy so cringe, does no one else feel that?