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I’d urge people not to give up caring. There’s a lot of crappy things happening in the world and it can be a lot to deal with, but just tossing your hands up is

I’d urge people not to give up caring. There’s a lot of crappy things happening in the world and it can be a lot to deal with, but just tossing your hands up isn’t the answer. I’d also argue that tax paying Americans are obligated to care. Our money is funding Israel’s crimes and we are morally culpable if we don’t resist or try to change policy.

tartoran 5y ago
Yes, I am aware of that and do care for justice but am afraid to talk abour it IRL to be honest. To be publically acused of antisemitism for being critical to Israel could be a real nightmare Im not ready to go through. I am no antisemitist, on the contrary, some of my favorite people are jewish. Am I a coward? I think so but I have a family and want to hold onto my job. Here on HN I am not afraid to comment because this account is not tied to my real identity. Ps There is one think I do which I know is directly connected to this. I boycot Israeli food products, mostly grown on occupied lands. The inpact is close to nil but it’s the most I can do at the moment.
- luffapi 5y ago
  I agree this is a real issue. Even if it’s just voicing support under a pseudonym (such as I’ve done here), it’s better than nothing. The younger generations are definitely more aware of the issues Palestinians are facing and more vocal about putting an end to it. That offers me some hope.
- YZF 5y ago
  You should know that saying some of my favorite people are jewish is something that sounds pretty bad. The idea that you would be branded as an anti-semite and lose your job because you are critical of Israel also sounds bad. A lot of people are critical of Israel's policies, including many Israelis. There is absolutely no problem with that.
  - tartoran 5y ago
    Why is it bad if I admire jews? I think this is going too far, I am not ill intended towards anyone but you just gave me an example why as a non jew I should stay quiet if I don’t want to be labeled as anything or god knows what else
    - pydry 5y ago
      Do you hold the same views about all races? E.g. "It's not bad if i admire [ blacks / whites / asians / aryans / han chinese]?
  - Udik 5y ago
    > The idea that you would be branded as an anti-semite and lose your job because you are critical of Israel also sounds bad. Sounds very plausible instead. The original cancel culture is exactly that used to silence critics of Israel- the accusation of antisemitism has been used for decades to terminate careers. People have learned very well to keep their mouths shut.
    - YZF 5y ago
      There's lots of critics of Israel. Can you give me 3 (or 10) examples or people who lost their jobs as a result of some reasonable criticism of Israel's policies? Weren't there recent petitions in Google and Amazon to boycott Israel? Did anyone lose their jobs? And this is political activism at your workplace, which isn't exactly the same thing as stating your opinion outside work. If you choose to bring politics into your workplace anything can happen. Let me tell you how this sounds to me as a Jewish person, it sounds like some sort of conspiracy theory that is alluding that "we" are somehow pulling some invisible strings to get people fired for being justly critical of Israel. I could be paranoid but honestly I've earned the right to be paranoid. I would fight for anyone's right to criticize Israel. I would also fight for the discussion to be based on facts and for Israel not to be singled out for "preferential" treatment. There is no problem being critical of Israel. Antisemitism is a big problem. If you don't feel like you can draw this line just study the question before commenting. It's really not that hard. Let me give you a specific example. If you say Israel is intentionally trying to inflict damage on Gaza in order to deter Hamas and the population from re-engaging Israel in the future and that's a questionable tactic. I would say this is reasonable criticism (at least should be discussed). If you say Israel should not be evicting Arabs from their homes at the moment from disputed territories even if they are legally entitled to, or you want to debate said legality. Fair game IMO. However if you say look how many Palestinians died vs. Israelis in the latest round of violence and use it as a measure of morality that is problematic. In war each side tries to minimize damage to their side and inflict as much damage on the other side. People saying this are either incredibly naive or are twisting the (sad) reality to fit some agenda IMO. I don't think what I am saying here is that you can only have a voice if you agree with me. You can even choose to disagree with me on the question of war and proportionality. But you better come to this discussion with some good supporting arguments. There is certainly a lot of history and a lot of room for debate about this.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  > I am aware of that and do care for justice but am afraid to talk abour it IRL to be honest. To be publically acused of antisemitism for being critical to Israel could be a real nightmare Im not ready to go through. ... Am I a coward? I think so but I have a family and want to hold onto my job. Here on HN I am not afraid to comment because this account is not tied to my real identity. You're not a coward; you're human. Here's what I tell myself: There are people who sacrificed far more for freedom than whatever I risk - anger, rejection by some, even my job and reputation. However, I only have one job and one reputation, and I'm not sacrificing them for nothing. And regardless, taking a dramatic stand rarely accomplishes anything. Listening to others, being curious and open about their positions, and then responding thoughtfully accomplishes much more with much less risk. > I am no antisemitist, on the contrary, some of my favorite people are jewish. FWIW, this is a classic line of prejudiced people: 'I'm not anti-X; some of my best friends are X.' There was even a public service commercial in the 1980s that used almost that exact line. Whatever your thoughts, I wouldn't say it. It sounds defensive, for one thing. Say something affirmative - e.g., 'Israelis have a right to peace and justice, as do Palestinians.' If you are prejudiced (I have no idea; I'm not drawing a conclusion based on one sentence in an online post; and I am certainly nobody's judge), it's ok. We all are to various degrees - the point for me is to be aware that I am human too, that I have this human potential and to be aware of it and notice it, and also to be aware that I also have the human potential for much greater things, and I have a responsibility to embrace that and change my perspective.
  - Udik 5y ago
    > FWIW, this is a classic line of prejudiced people: 'I'm not anti-X; some of my best friends are X.' On the other hand, this is just a trope that needs to die. It's a non sequitur and is in fact an example of kafkatrap: https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Kafkatrap https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Kafkatrap
  - ttt0 5y ago
    I'm not anti-Javascript, some of my favorite websites are written in Javascript.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

tartoran 5y ago

Yes, I am aware of that and do care for justice but am afraid to talk abour it IRL to be honest. To be publically acused of antisemitism for being critical to Israel could be a real nightmare Im not ready to go through. I am no antisemitist, on the contrary, some of my favorite people are jewish. Am I a coward? I think so but I have a family and want to hold onto my job. Here on HN I am not afraid to comment because this account is not tied to my real identity. Ps There is one think I do which I know is directly connected to this. I boycot Israeli food products, mostly grown on occupied lands. The inpact is close to nil but it’s the most I can do at the moment.

luffapi 5y ago
I agree this is a real issue. Even if it’s just voicing support under a pseudonym (such as I’ve done here), it’s better than nothing. The younger generations are definitely more aware of the issues Palestinians are facing and more vocal about putting an end to it. That offers me some hope.
YZF 5y ago
You should know that saying some of my favorite people are jewish is something that sounds pretty bad. The idea that you would be branded as an anti-semite and lose your job because you are critical of Israel also sounds bad. A lot of people are critical of Israel's policies, including many Israelis. There is absolutely no problem with that.
- tartoran 5y ago
  Why is it bad if I admire jews? I think this is going too far, I am not ill intended towards anyone but you just gave me an example why as a non jew I should stay quiet if I don’t want to be labeled as anything or god knows what else
  - pydry 5y ago
    Do you hold the same views about all races? E.g. "It's not bad if i admire [ blacks / whites / asians / aryans / han chinese]?
- Udik 5y ago
  > The idea that you would be branded as an anti-semite and lose your job because you are critical of Israel also sounds bad. Sounds very plausible instead. The original cancel culture is exactly that used to silence critics of Israel- the accusation of antisemitism has been used for decades to terminate careers. People have learned very well to keep their mouths shut.
  - YZF 5y ago
    There's lots of critics of Israel. Can you give me 3 (or 10) examples or people who lost their jobs as a result of some reasonable criticism of Israel's policies? Weren't there recent petitions in Google and Amazon to boycott Israel? Did anyone lose their jobs? And this is political activism at your workplace, which isn't exactly the same thing as stating your opinion outside work. If you choose to bring politics into your workplace anything can happen. Let me tell you how this sounds to me as a Jewish person, it sounds like some sort of conspiracy theory that is alluding that "we" are somehow pulling some invisible strings to get people fired for being justly critical of Israel. I could be paranoid but honestly I've earned the right to be paranoid. I would fight for anyone's right to criticize Israel. I would also fight for the discussion to be based on facts and for Israel not to be singled out for "preferential" treatment. There is no problem being critical of Israel. Antisemitism is a big problem. If you don't feel like you can draw this line just study the question before commenting. It's really not that hard. Let me give you a specific example. If you say Israel is intentionally trying to inflict damage on Gaza in order to deter Hamas and the population from re-engaging Israel in the future and that's a questionable tactic. I would say this is reasonable criticism (at least should be discussed). If you say Israel should not be evicting Arabs from their homes at the moment from disputed territories even if they are legally entitled to, or you want to debate said legality. Fair game IMO. However if you say look how many Palestinians died vs. Israelis in the latest round of violence and use it as a measure of morality that is problematic. In war each side tries to minimize damage to their side and inflict as much damage on the other side. People saying this are either incredibly naive or are twisting the (sad) reality to fit some agenda IMO. I don't think what I am saying here is that you can only have a voice if you agree with me. You can even choose to disagree with me on the question of war and proportionality. But you better come to this discussion with some good supporting arguments. There is certainly a lot of history and a lot of room for debate about this.
wolverine876 5y ago
> I am aware of that and do care for justice but am afraid to talk abour it IRL to be honest. To be publically acused of antisemitism for being critical to Israel could be a real nightmare Im not ready to go through. ... Am I a coward? I think so but I have a family and want to hold onto my job. Here on HN I am not afraid to comment because this account is not tied to my real identity. You're not a coward; you're human. Here's what I tell myself: There are people who sacrificed far more for freedom than whatever I risk - anger, rejection by some, even my job and reputation. However, I only have one job and one reputation, and I'm not sacrificing them for nothing. And regardless, taking a dramatic stand rarely accomplishes anything. Listening to others, being curious and open about their positions, and then responding thoughtfully accomplishes much more with much less risk. > I am no antisemitist, on the contrary, some of my favorite people are jewish. FWIW, this is a classic line of prejudiced people: 'I'm not anti-X; some of my best friends are X.' There was even a public service commercial in the 1980s that used almost that exact line. Whatever your thoughts, I wouldn't say it. It sounds defensive, for one thing. Say something affirmative - e.g., 'Israelis have a right to peace and justice, as do Palestinians.' If you are prejudiced (I have no idea; I'm not drawing a conclusion based on one sentence in an online post; and I am certainly nobody's judge), it's ok. We all are to various degrees - the point for me is to be aware that I am human too, that I have this human potential and to be aware of it and notice it, and also to be aware that I also have the human potential for much greater things, and I have a responsibility to embrace that and change my perspective.
- Udik 5y ago
  > FWIW, this is a classic line of prejudiced people: 'I'm not anti-X; some of my best friends are X.' On the other hand, this is just a trope that needs to die. It's a non sequitur and is in fact an example of kafkatrap: https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Kafkatrap https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Kafkatrap
- ttt0 5y ago
  I'm not anti-Javascript, some of my favorite websites are written in Javascript.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]