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The reason their vacation is docked is because the actual punishment they're receiving is an unpaid suspension. But since going unpaid hurts, they take the susp
by thera2 5y ago
The reason their vacation is docked is because the actual punishment they're receiving is an unpaid suspension. But since going unpaid hurts, they take the suspension out of the vacation hours.
- djhaskin987 5y agoIt doesn't seem so outrageous. I mean, when you move the slider, 20 vacation days for not securing the firearm translates to an enormous fine. Moving the slider all the way to the right the web page reads "4 cases resulting only in a loss of 45 vacation days.". ONLY 45 vacation days. 9 weeks pay is a lot of money, folks.
- superkuh 5y agoOkay, losing vacation days does imply a significant lack of paid income. But at every other job when you do something that can or does get someone injured or killed you get fired.
- thera2 5y agoNot every infraction involves someone getting injured or killed.
- athenot 5y agoAt other jobs, even committing an infraction that didn't injure nor kill anybody but was against company policy is enough to get terminated. It's often a liability issue for the company.
- thera2 5y agoAnd that's still the case here? This is just one more possible punishment. I'm sure if at tech companies workers were receiving docked vacation they would be raging on HN.
- moate 5y agoTech workers and police are extremely different types of workers with extremely different job responsibilities, working agreements/contracts, and level of impact on the groups that oversee them. We are not the same by a country mile.
- mosselman 5y agoOne 45 day loss was for breaking a restroom door with a battering ram in a practical joke... pretty harsh punishment.
- lostlogin 5y agoIs it? There is more to this story. Was someone in there at the time? Edit: The list as a whole is horrific. Bullying, racism, sexism, corruption and incidents that resulted in death.
- ch4s3 5y agoCould you imagine doing that at your job and not being fired immediately?
- siegecraft 5y agocurrent job? no. a job with a strong union? yes. a startup with a certain kind of work hard/play hard (really just lots of drinking) culture? definitely, there's plenty of stories like this (and worse) in the books.
- ch4s3 5y agoDo you think the the people who hold the truncheon of the state's monopoly on violence should have a "work hard/play hard" culture, or union protections that absolve them of consequences when they impulsively act violently?
- mindslight 5y agoI think people who "hold the truncheon" should be intelligent enough to appreciate humor, yes. FWIW framing things as if officers' job is to perform violence on behalf of the state is a big part of the problem. The state's monopoly on violence should be in the hands of the courts, and not individual officers doling out punishment. Police officers should be seen as citizens getting paid to do a good job at something that any other citizen could do if so inclined.
- vorpalhex 5y agoMost jobs don't demand a steady stream of life and death decisions on 12+ hour shifts with terrible pay. The closest would be the medical industry, and typically screwups are disciplined but rarely result in firing.
- jeffbee 5y agoThe most stressful decision your median NYPD officer faces every day is whether to double-park in the bike lane or in front of a fire hydrant while getting their Starbucks. An MTA bus driver makes 1000x more life-or-death decisions per shift.
- bluGill 5y agoMost police jobs don't demand that either. I know retied cops who never had to make a life or death decision in their job. (except first-aid situations which happen often but are different than this discussion) It is useful for police to have a gun (but not required!), and they should know how to use it. However that doesn't mean they should use one off the practice range.
- soperj 5y agothey aren't losing 9 weeks pay. They're taking time off with pay, they just don't get to choose the days.
- username90 5y agoThe article said they lost the days and nothing else happened. Are you saying the article is wrong or heavily misleading? > In some 89% of the cases made public, reduced vacation time was one of the penalties levied, and in more than 60% of the cases it was the only punishment.
- lostlogin 5y agoI think I both can be correct. ‘Administrative leave’ is hardly a punishment.
- soperj 5y agoThey are taking administrative leave with pay, and in turn losing vacation days. Aka they're being forced to take vacation days when they haven't planned to use them. They still have time off with pay.
- klyrs 5y agoIf a civilian broke down the door of a precinct bathroom with a battering ram, what do you think the consequences would be? I'm guessing more than 45 days in jail and they'd probably get fired wherever they're employed.
- username90 5y agoAlternatively if a civilian broke down a door in a company party likely the only thing would be that they got a bill for fixing the door, which is way less than 45 days of pay.
- moate 5y agoOr fired. Fired is also a very reasonable thing if someone knowingly broke company property for a laugh. Obviously without knowing all the specifics of the case, IDK which is more reasonable but both are certainly plausible.
- long_time_gone 5y ago==likely== What is this based on? Are you in HR? Do you know of examples of this happening?
- klyrs 5y agoAgreeing with the sibling comment, I'd think that getting fired is the most likely outcome. But what about the occupants of the bathroom? Battering the door down is a violent and threatening act. Do you suppose they might have standing to press criminal charges? Or at least a lawsuit? Did you know that damage over $1000 would be considered felony vandalism in many states? The door alone probably costs over $1000, not to mention damage to the frame. Looking at prison time and a permanent record here, and in some states, lifetime disenfranchisement. So yeah. Only 45 days pay is pretty sweet. And if it was a civilian vandalizing and terrorizing a precinct, bet your ass they'd prosecute all of these charges and more to the fullest. Given that this is a violent felony, it could trigger a three strikes law if the perp already had a record.
- jakelazaroff 5y ago
- shkkmo 5y agoYou are misunderstanding the use of "only" here. It is meant to describe which punishments were meted out, not to pass judgement on the severity. Cases where there were other punishments in addition to loss of vacation time are not included.
- IgorPartola 5y agoSo instead of me choosing when to take a paid vacation the department would choose for me? Sounds like a great way to get Xmas or the 4th of July off if I can’t request it: commit a minor infraction a few days before my desired vacation timeframe knowing the punishment and the time it takes to administer it.