6 ms·

Windows definitely needs improving. I tried the Gnome 40 desktop recently and it's much more polished, consistent and refined.

Lariscus 5y ago
Does the file chooser show thumbnails yet?
- willtim 5y ago
  Yep, shows thumbnails for pictures, videos, pdfs etc. More formats than Windows in fact. Windows has been standing still, the rest of the world hasn't. EDIT: I used "Files", not the file picker.
  - ohgodplsno 5y ago
    Thumbnail preview is a _massive_ attack surface. All those RCEs in JPEGs, MP4s, PDFs etc are now potentially immediately executed upon displaying the file. No thanks.
    - hughrr 5y ago
      You’re going to want to look at those pictures if you have them or do you just collect file names?
    - wishigotitfree 5y ago
      See, the nice thing about Linux is that you can always disable what you don't like. You're never just helplessly subject to the whims of the developers.
    - TkTech 5y ago
      So turn it off if it worries you. Keep in mind thumbnail rendering is sandboxed[0]. It's Linux, the reason I like it is that it doesn't try to prevent you from doing whatever you want. [0] https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-desktop/-/blob/master/README.md#thumbnailing-sandboxing https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-desktop/-/blob/master/R...
    - grumpyprole 5y ago
      Lol. Although, at least for open source, by the time a hacker has an exploit prepared, someone will have rewritten the code.
    - ubercow13 5y ago
      What do you do between opening the file manager and opening the image/video itself that verifies it doesn’t have any RCE exploits that other people aren’t doing?
  - mauricioc 5y ago
    I am using GNOME 40 and I just opened a file picker in Totem, the official video player. I did not find a way to switch the file picker from "Details" mode (one line per file, with size/type columns and a very very small thumbnail) to a "grid thumbnail" mode where they would be recognizable. The related bug is still open at https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/233 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/233, so I don't think this has been fixed.
    - willtim 5y ago
      Ah yes I used "Files" and not the file picker. I guess the file picker is part of GTK and therefore cannot use the rest of the gnome infrastructure?
      - alexvoda 5y ago
        The reason does not matter. It really is truly, absolutely irrelevant. If Windows has issues with paths longer than 260 chars (only PARTIALLY fixed since Windows 10, v1607), I do not care that NTFS actually has no problem and supports 32,767 Unicode characters and the actual problem is the Windows API (and since v1607, apps that have not been updated to support the new behaviour). It is an example of a bug/limitation/lack-of-polish of Windows. The internal details are irrelevant. Gnome has a lot more of these issues(thumbnails being one of the most visible and annoying ones) than Windows. Gnome (any ver) is not more polished than Windows.
        willtim 5y ago
        I agree that the reason does not matter and is irrelevant to the end-user. I was just speculating as to why they have not "just fixed it". However, I disagree that Windows is more polished. Windows is made up of a mixture of UI frameworks/controls/apps, some going back decades. Much of this legacy is poorly integrated and even basic things like drag-and-drop doesn't work consistently. At least Gnome is consistent and they have a vision.
        zxzax 5y ago
        If there are issues you'd like to see fixed, the best way to get those dealt with would be to contribute.
  - alexvoda 5y ago
    You sure about that? I see the bug is still open: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/233 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/233 This is not about thumbnails in the file manager but about the file chooser (open/save dialog). I believe the following post is still relevant: https://jayfax.neocities.org/mediocrity/gnome-has-no-thumbnails-in-the-file-picker.html https://jayfax.neocities.org/mediocrity/gnome-has-no-thumbna... At least KDE does this properly: https://www.ubuntubuzz.com/2021/04/comparison-of-file-chooser-dialogs.html https://www.ubuntubuzz.com/2021/04/comparison-of-file-choose...
    - willtim 5y ago
      KDE looks really good too, but I mostly prefer the minimalism/simplicity/aesthetic of Gnome.
- ravenstine 5y ago
  It will until you upgrade your Ubuntu version and you open it up to find a message that "your file manager is deprecated. use this crappy fork with fewer features instead", only to have it abandoned after a few years because the devs for the fork got butthurt. I'm so glad I ditched Linux. Got tired of losing features because of people's egos, and being told ffmpeg was deprecated when it really wasn't became the final straw.
  - willtim 5y ago
    Is that relevant to Gnome? It's used the same file manager "Nautilus" for years. Apple and Microsoft are also quite capable of killing software projects.
    - ravenstine 5y ago
      How long have you been using Gnome for? I'd been a while for me, but back when I was using Linux it seemed like Nautilus was frequently dropping features for things I didn't care about. https://www.techrepublic.com/blog/linux-and-open-source/gnome-is-simply-losing-its-grasp/ https://www.techrepublic.com/blog/linux-and-open-source/gnom... Gnome may be different now, but they were part of a pattern in the GNU/Linux community that ultimately caused me to leave it. I knew I couldn't rely on either Gnome or distros themselves because they seemed to have no problem changing things out from underneath you, and more often than not it seemed like those things were done as a form of self promotion. This wasn't a one off thing. This was the Linux world for a good number of years, in my experience. Anyone who used Ubuntu or Debian from 2008 to around 2013 might remember the forks that happened because DEs up and decided that they knew better than their own users. Not specifically about Gnome, but I brought up FFmpeg (or rather libav) as another example of the bullshit of Linux. Some devs decided that they didn't like the architecture of FFmpeg and wanted it to be organized to their liking, so they forked it into Libav/avconv, which was inferior to FFmpeg but the people who run the Debian repositories were convinced that Libav was the future so they replaced FFmpeg with an alias to avconv that had a totally misleading deprecation message that was basically a lie. So yeah, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Gnome one day decided to get rid of thumbnails and not provide an option to turn them back on. Yes, I am bitter from the latter years of my Linux usage. Somehow macOS can update and upgrade its versions without causing me to question whether aspects of the UI I rely upon will spontaneously disappear or gaslight me into thinking I shouldn't be using those things anymore.
- marcodiego 5y ago
  Immediately pressed ctrl+o when I read this. Went to "Images" folder. Yes, thumbnails are there.
outside1234 5y ago
Do multiple displays actually work yet? ie. Can you plug-in laptop to two displays, arrange windows, and then disconnect and reconnect and have the windows in the same place?
- chainwax 5y ago
  Multiple displays definitely work, but I had to check regarding your question about screen arrangement. That works. Gnome version 3.38.3 Ubuntu 20.10 Thinkpad X1 Carbon 6th gen rigged to a Dell thunderbolt dock Monitor 1 from dock via hdmi Monitor 2 from dock via displayport
binbag 5y ago
This is madness!
tssva 5y ago
Does it still crash every 15 minutes because that is what it did for me when I tried Fedora 34?
- grumpyprole 5y ago
  Well Fedora is bleeding edge, RedHat's equivalent to Windows insider builds. Try Ubuntu LTS or Debian.
  - tssva 5y ago
    Ubuntu doesn't ship with Gnome 40.
    - grumpyprole 5y ago
      You have to choose between stability and the latest/greatest. You cannot have both. Not even Apple users get both.

Lariscus 5y ago

Does the file chooser show thumbnails yet?

willtim 5y ago
Yep, shows thumbnails for pictures, videos, pdfs etc. More formats than Windows in fact. Windows has been standing still, the rest of the world hasn't. EDIT: I used "Files", not the file picker.
- ohgodplsno 5y ago
  Thumbnail preview is a _massive_ attack surface. All those RCEs in JPEGs, MP4s, PDFs etc are now potentially immediately executed upon displaying the file. No thanks.
  - hughrr 5y ago
    You’re going to want to look at those pictures if you have them or do you just collect file names?
  - wishigotitfree 5y ago
    See, the nice thing about Linux is that you can always disable what you don't like. You're never just helplessly subject to the whims of the developers.
  - TkTech 5y ago
    So turn it off if it worries you. Keep in mind thumbnail rendering is sandboxed[0]. It's Linux, the reason I like it is that it doesn't try to prevent you from doing whatever you want. [0] https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-desktop/-/blob/master/README.md#thumbnailing-sandboxing https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-desktop/-/blob/master/R...
  - grumpyprole 5y ago
    Lol. Although, at least for open source, by the time a hacker has an exploit prepared, someone will have rewritten the code.
  - ubercow13 5y ago
    What do you do between opening the file manager and opening the image/video itself that verifies it doesn’t have any RCE exploits that other people aren’t doing?
- mauricioc 5y ago
  I am using GNOME 40 and I just opened a file picker in Totem, the official video player. I did not find a way to switch the file picker from "Details" mode (one line per file, with size/type columns and a very very small thumbnail) to a "grid thumbnail" mode where they would be recognizable. The related bug is still open at https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/233 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/233, so I don't think this has been fixed.
  - willtim 5y ago
    Ah yes I used "Files" and not the file picker. I guess the file picker is part of GTK and therefore cannot use the rest of the gnome infrastructure?
    - alexvoda 5y ago
      The reason does not matter. It really is truly, absolutely irrelevant. If Windows has issues with paths longer than 260 chars (only PARTIALLY fixed since Windows 10, v1607), I do not care that NTFS actually has no problem and supports 32,767 Unicode characters and the actual problem is the Windows API (and since v1607, apps that have not been updated to support the new behaviour). It is an example of a bug/limitation/lack-of-polish of Windows. The internal details are irrelevant. Gnome has a lot more of these issues(thumbnails being one of the most visible and annoying ones) than Windows. Gnome (any ver) is not more polished than Windows.
      - willtim 5y ago
        I agree that the reason does not matter and is irrelevant to the end-user. I was just speculating as to why they have not "just fixed it". However, I disagree that Windows is more polished. Windows is made up of a mixture of UI frameworks/controls/apps, some going back decades. Much of this legacy is poorly integrated and even basic things like drag-and-drop doesn't work consistently. At least Gnome is consistent and they have a vision.
      - zxzax 5y ago
        If there are issues you'd like to see fixed, the best way to get those dealt with would be to contribute.
- alexvoda 5y ago
  You sure about that? I see the bug is still open: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/233 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/233 This is not about thumbnails in the file manager but about the file chooser (open/save dialog). I believe the following post is still relevant: https://jayfax.neocities.org/mediocrity/gnome-has-no-thumbnails-in-the-file-picker.html https://jayfax.neocities.org/mediocrity/gnome-has-no-thumbna... At least KDE does this properly: https://www.ubuntubuzz.com/2021/04/comparison-of-file-chooser-dialogs.html https://www.ubuntubuzz.com/2021/04/comparison-of-file-choose...
  - willtim 5y ago
    KDE looks really good too, but I mostly prefer the minimalism/simplicity/aesthetic of Gnome.
ravenstine 5y ago
It will until you upgrade your Ubuntu version and you open it up to find a message that "your file manager is deprecated. use this crappy fork with fewer features instead", only to have it abandoned after a few years because the devs for the fork got butthurt. I'm so glad I ditched Linux. Got tired of losing features because of people's egos, and being told ffmpeg was deprecated when it really wasn't became the final straw.
- willtim 5y ago
  Is that relevant to Gnome? It's used the same file manager "Nautilus" for years. Apple and Microsoft are also quite capable of killing software projects.
  - ravenstine 5y ago
    How long have you been using Gnome for? I'd been a while for me, but back when I was using Linux it seemed like Nautilus was frequently dropping features for things I didn't care about. https://www.techrepublic.com/blog/linux-and-open-source/gnome-is-simply-losing-its-grasp/ https://www.techrepublic.com/blog/linux-and-open-source/gnom... Gnome may be different now, but they were part of a pattern in the GNU/Linux community that ultimately caused me to leave it. I knew I couldn't rely on either Gnome or distros themselves because they seemed to have no problem changing things out from underneath you, and more often than not it seemed like those things were done as a form of self promotion. This wasn't a one off thing. This was the Linux world for a good number of years, in my experience. Anyone who used Ubuntu or Debian from 2008 to around 2013 might remember the forks that happened because DEs up and decided that they knew better than their own users. Not specifically about Gnome, but I brought up FFmpeg (or rather libav) as another example of the bullshit of Linux. Some devs decided that they didn't like the architecture of FFmpeg and wanted it to be organized to their liking, so they forked it into Libav/avconv, which was inferior to FFmpeg but the people who run the Debian repositories were convinced that Libav was the future so they replaced FFmpeg with an alias to avconv that had a totally misleading deprecation message that was basically a lie. So yeah, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Gnome one day decided to get rid of thumbnails and not provide an option to turn them back on. Yes, I am bitter from the latter years of my Linux usage. Somehow macOS can update and upgrade its versions without causing me to question whether aspects of the UI I rely upon will spontaneously disappear or gaslight me into thinking I shouldn't be using those things anymore.
marcodiego 5y ago
Immediately pressed ctrl+o when I read this. Went to "Images" folder. Yes, thumbnails are there.

outside1234 5y ago

Do multiple displays actually work yet? ie. Can you plug-in laptop to two displays, arrange windows, and then disconnect and reconnect and have the windows in the same place?

chainwax 5y ago
Multiple displays definitely work, but I had to check regarding your question about screen arrangement. That works. Gnome version 3.38.3 Ubuntu 20.10 Thinkpad X1 Carbon 6th gen rigged to a Dell thunderbolt dock Monitor 1 from dock via hdmi Monitor 2 from dock via displayport

binbag 5y ago

This is madness!

tssva 5y ago

Does it still crash every 15 minutes because that is what it did for me when I tried Fedora 34?

grumpyprole 5y ago
Well Fedora is bleeding edge, RedHat's equivalent to Windows insider builds. Try Ubuntu LTS or Debian.
- tssva 5y ago
  Ubuntu doesn't ship with Gnome 40.
  - grumpyprole 5y ago
    You have to choose between stability and the latest/greatest. You cannot have both. Not even Apple users get both.