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>I see pasabagi criticizing xtian’s specific comments and approach. I see him implying that the comments/observations are not in good faith and that he might b

>I see pasabagi criticizing xtian’s specific comments and approach. I see him implying that the comments/observations are not in good faith and that he might be paid for taking the positions he takes. This seems completely unnecessary and quite rude. >Assuming any negative comment about China to be an attempt to scam us into a war also seems like a mistake. You may not recognize the increased sinophobia in the west but it is part of a well funded centralized effort to demonize and increase the potential for kinetic warfare between western countries and China. The fact that HN acts like an echo chamber for state approved anti-Chinese perspectives doesn't help matters. A close reading of sino-western historic/economic relations results in a very different perspective than the one which is promoted in western MSM by corrupted organizations.

zepto 5y ago
> You may not recognize the increased sinophobia in the west but it is part of a well funded centralized effort to demonize and increase the potential for kinetic warfare between western countries and China. Is it? It’s clearly geopolitical, but the claim that it’s intended to lead to kinetic warfare seems like something you don’t have evidence for.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  The fact that so much of it is funded by defence contractors isn't a clue? Google ["Xinjiang" "ASPI"] for examples. Or maybe the massive buildup of missiles and warplanes around China could be a clues? We are now at a stage where geopolitical hostility with China has a good chance of turning kinetic if exacerbated, and there is funding from exactly the parties that would stand to benefit from that, so I don't see how this lacks evidence.
  - zepto 5y ago
    > Or maybe the massive buildup of missiles and warplanes around China could be a clues? If there is such a buildup (evidence?), it seems like a natural response to check China’s increasing overtures towards Taiwan, a key strategic ally. There is no evidence that anyone wants a kinetic war for its own sake or that any development in that direction is ‘just’ a product of the defense industry. China is involved in geopolitics and just as much as the US. What’s curious here is not the invocation of well known bad acts by the US. It’s the presentation of China as a benign victim who has no geopolitical ambitions, oppressive behavior, or political repression.
meowface 5y ago
Based on this post, I think anyone can predict what your own comment history (https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=bingbong70 https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=bingbong70) is like, similar to theirs (https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=xtian https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=xtian): >I personally think the GFW is a good thing, for now, that other developing countries may have an interest in copying. Free flowing mass communication in nations without fully developed public (security) services can be a disaster... the conflicts (and even genocides) that arose from poorer countries adopting FB come to mind. >If given a choice, as a person that lives 99% of the time in the US, would you rather have a US device that is backdoored by the NSA/CIA or a Chinese device that is backdoored by the Chinese government? I personally think the latter is preferable. Not sure why anyone buys US made equipment post Snowden/Assange. >Quite an analogy with an assumption that "speech" is the only thing Jack Ma could have done wrong.... >I do find it interesting that the idea of a foreign country dropping covid in China is not even considered. >Students of history will find it much more believable that a western country infected the Chinese with covid-19. >Does each US/EU/German/Japanese person have more right to pollute than a Chinese person? I think not. >If Julian Assange leaked Chinese intelligence/war-crime-evidence he would be at home raising his kids right now. >Also notice what's going on in Palestine isn't called genocide because its not convenient for these "civil nations", even though what Israel is doing is more genocidal and violent than anything that has happened in Western China to Uighurs. >I've only seen unsubstantiated nonsense from MSM when it comes to this topic...wild extrapolations that ignore the real terrorism problem in western China. >Reeks of double standards being set by western nations to suppress China's economy. At this point, any manufactured excuse will get adopted and mainstreamed. >The difference is that the largest trading nation on the planet just created a system for 0 fee transactions that can expand to global usage quite easily (I believe wepay/alipay were mostly intended for domestic use). >The average Chinese citizen is less free thanks to these covert/overt foreign interventions. >Dictators aside, the Chinese are considered fairer trading partners than most (possibly all) western countries. ~1000 years of African history makes this point very clear. >Both Churchill and Roosevelt had planned to continue supplying Japan so they could destroy China, the supplies were cutoff without their knowledge. >One would expect the more assertive to openly/unapologetically defend their history and decisions of leaders like Mao. Thanks to tremendous western propaganda that's probably a red flag (no pun intended) for most immigration agents. >I expect the fact that this virus emerged in Wuhan during the World Military Games makes the Chinese very cautious about allowing in 'investigators' from countries that potentially deployed this biological weapon. >The West just literally got done murdering a few million innocent Muslim civilians in Yemen, Iraq, Syria,etc... and now thinks it has the authority to lecture China about "proper" deradicalization techniques, it's quite comical really... >US/UK were bombing these Uighur extremists/separatists just a few years ago. Now they are seen as useful pawns in the trade/economic war with China, so the genocide narrative gets mainstreamed by the usual suspects (the same ones that tried to hide the fact that we (US/UK) were arming/training/funding ISIS and visiting Uighur/Turk terrorists in Syria). >Taiwan's strength is being right next to one of the largest economies in human history. Put Taiwan in Northern Europe or for that matter anywhere else in the world and its future prospects would be reduced drastically. >>As said, money inside China is not yours, ask a guy Ma. Now we may say, digital money of China is not yours as well, just the ccp. >Are dollars really yours inside the sanction happy dollar system? I genuinely don't necessarily think you or the other poster are "paid shills" or anything like that. (I didn't see pasabagi making such an accusation in their initial post, either, but I agree it was probably implied.) I'd put a higher probability to you and they just being Chinese nationals or related to people who are, just as many American nationals may blindly defend the US government. Or if not, that you simply support them for other reasons. The point isn't ostensible shilling or bad faith: it's that you're both extremely agenda-driven, biased, and suspect to motivated reasoning in almost every comment; and the vast majority of comments are about the Chinese government (plus Bitcoin, in your case); and you both have a lot of comments. I'd say the same if instead you were full-time apologists for the US government or any other government. Also, I'd turn this question back on you: >If given a choice, as a person that lives 99% of the time in the US, would you rather have a US device that is backdoored by the NSA/CIA or a Chinese device that is backdoored by the Chinese government? I personally think the latter is preferable. If given a choice between being someone who lives 99% of the time in the US and has a US device backdoored by the NSA/CIA vs. someone who lives 99% of the time in China and has a Chinese device backdoored by the Chinese government, which would you choose?
dang 5y ago
Since your account has been using HN primarily (exclusively?) for ideological battle, I've banned it. We ban such accounts because they destroy the curious, thoughtful conversation this site is supposed to exist for. Regardless of what you happen to be battling for or against, that's not allowed here. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

zepto 5y ago

> You may not recognize the increased sinophobia in the west but it is part of a well funded centralized effort to demonize and increase the potential for kinetic warfare between western countries and China. Is it? It’s clearly geopolitical, but the claim that it’s intended to lead to kinetic warfare seems like something you don’t have evidence for.

sudosysgen 5y ago
The fact that so much of it is funded by defence contractors isn't a clue? Google ["Xinjiang" "ASPI"] for examples. Or maybe the massive buildup of missiles and warplanes around China could be a clues? We are now at a stage where geopolitical hostility with China has a good chance of turning kinetic if exacerbated, and there is funding from exactly the parties that would stand to benefit from that, so I don't see how this lacks evidence.
- zepto 5y ago
  > Or maybe the massive buildup of missiles and warplanes around China could be a clues? If there is such a buildup (evidence?), it seems like a natural response to check China’s increasing overtures towards Taiwan, a key strategic ally. There is no evidence that anyone wants a kinetic war for its own sake or that any development in that direction is ‘just’ a product of the defense industry. China is involved in geopolitics and just as much as the US. What’s curious here is not the invocation of well known bad acts by the US. It’s the presentation of China as a benign victim who has no geopolitical ambitions, oppressive behavior, or political repression.

meowface 5y ago

Based on this post, I think anyone can predict what your own comment history (https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=bingbong70 https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=bingbong70) is like, similar to theirs (https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=xtian https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=xtian): >I personally think the GFW is a good thing, for now, that other developing countries may have an interest in copying. Free flowing mass communication in nations without fully developed public (security) services can be a disaster... the conflicts (and even genocides) that arose from poorer countries adopting FB come to mind. >If given a choice, as a person that lives 99% of the time in the US, would you rather have a US device that is backdoored by the NSA/CIA or a Chinese device that is backdoored by the Chinese government? I personally think the latter is preferable. Not sure why anyone buys US made equipment post Snowden/Assange. >Quite an analogy with an assumption that "speech" is the only thing Jack Ma could have done wrong.... >I do find it interesting that the idea of a foreign country dropping covid in China is not even considered. >Students of history will find it much more believable that a western country infected the Chinese with covid-19. >Does each US/EU/German/Japanese person have more right to pollute than a Chinese person? I think not. >If Julian Assange leaked Chinese intelligence/war-crime-evidence he would be at home raising his kids right now. >Also notice what's going on in Palestine isn't called genocide because its not convenient for these "civil nations", even though what Israel is doing is more genocidal and violent than anything that has happened in Western China to Uighurs. >I've only seen unsubstantiated nonsense from MSM when it comes to this topic...wild extrapolations that ignore the real terrorism problem in western China. >Reeks of double standards being set by western nations to suppress China's economy. At this point, any manufactured excuse will get adopted and mainstreamed. >The difference is that the largest trading nation on the planet just created a system for 0 fee transactions that can expand to global usage quite easily (I believe wepay/alipay were mostly intended for domestic use). >The average Chinese citizen is less free thanks to these covert/overt foreign interventions. >Dictators aside, the Chinese are considered fairer trading partners than most (possibly all) western countries. ~1000 years of African history makes this point very clear. >Both Churchill and Roosevelt had planned to continue supplying Japan so they could destroy China, the supplies were cutoff without their knowledge. >One would expect the more assertive to openly/unapologetically defend their history and decisions of leaders like Mao. Thanks to tremendous western propaganda that's probably a red flag (no pun intended) for most immigration agents. >I expect the fact that this virus emerged in Wuhan during the World Military Games makes the Chinese very cautious about allowing in 'investigators' from countries that potentially deployed this biological weapon. >The West just literally got done murdering a few million innocent Muslim civilians in Yemen, Iraq, Syria,etc... and now thinks it has the authority to lecture China about "proper" deradicalization techniques, it's quite comical really... >US/UK were bombing these Uighur extremists/separatists just a few years ago. Now they are seen as useful pawns in the trade/economic war with China, so the genocide narrative gets mainstreamed by the usual suspects (the same ones that tried to hide the fact that we (US/UK) were arming/training/funding ISIS and visiting Uighur/Turk terrorists in Syria). >Taiwan's strength is being right next to one of the largest economies in human history. Put Taiwan in Northern Europe or for that matter anywhere else in the world and its future prospects would be reduced drastically. >>As said, money inside China is not yours, ask a guy Ma. Now we may say, digital money of China is not yours as well, just the ccp. >Are dollars really yours inside the sanction happy dollar system? I genuinely don't necessarily think you or the other poster are "paid shills" or anything like that. (I didn't see pasabagi making such an accusation in their initial post, either, but I agree it was probably implied.) I'd put a higher probability to you and they just being Chinese nationals or related to people who are, just as many American nationals may blindly defend the US government. Or if not, that you simply support them for other reasons. The point isn't ostensible shilling or bad faith: it's that you're both extremely agenda-driven, biased, and suspect to motivated reasoning in almost every comment; and the vast majority of comments are about the Chinese government (plus Bitcoin, in your case); and you both have a lot of comments. I'd say the same if instead you were full-time apologists for the US government or any other government. Also, I'd turn this question back on you: >If given a choice, as a person that lives 99% of the time in the US, would you rather have a US device that is backdoored by the NSA/CIA or a Chinese device that is backdoored by the Chinese government? I personally think the latter is preferable. If given a choice between being someone who lives 99% of the time in the US and has a US device backdoored by the NSA/CIA vs. someone who lives 99% of the time in China and has a Chinese device backdoored by the Chinese government, which would you choose?

dang 5y ago

Since your account has been using HN primarily (exclusively?) for ideological battle, I've banned it. We ban such accounts because they destroy the curious, thoughtful conversation this site is supposed to exist for. Regardless of what you happen to be battling for or against, that's not allowed here. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html