10 ms·

Alcohol is a harmful drug much worse than some of the other banned drugs on the market.

by maya24 5y ago

jmcdl 5y ago
This is a common refrain but at the same time it seems to be the one substance commonly used across most of the world since ancient times. None of the other supposedly less harmful, banned drugs are so ubiquitous. Perhaps there's a good reason for this (besides varying availability of other substances)?
- gilbetron 5y ago
  It's a really interesting question. Maybe the benefits of having something to drink that has alcohol to kill of pathogens outweigh the negatives?
  - chitowneats 5y ago
    I'm sorry, which pathogens are killed by imbibing alcohol? I've never heard of such a thing, even historically. Edit: Next time I'll do a cursory googling before commenting. This is apparently an existing hypothesis for common types of bacteria such as e coli, salmonella, etc in the drink itself, not in the body.
    - JoeAltmaier 5y ago
      I wonder if they meant killing pathogens in the drink, before you drank it. Clean water is a modern thing.
      - chitowneats 5y ago
        Bingo. Edited my comment above.
    - detaro 5y ago
      Pathogens have a harder time living in alcoholic beverages, making the drink itself safer.
- bart_spoon 5y ago
  One good reason is because alcoholic beverages could be stored for long periods of time and be safe for drinking. Water can become contaminated over time if bacteria is allowed to grow while it’s being stored, so it has to be relatively fresh to drink. Other options like milk would spoil quickly. Alcohol generally didn’t have these issues, giving it some utility that outweighed its advantages. In an age where other beverages are as easily accessible for people living in the modern world, it’s utility isn’t there any more and you are left with all the downsides.
  - throwawaycuriou 5y ago
    is it plausible humans initially hated the taste of alcohol and suffered worse hangovers, but in a manner of a few thousand years descend from ancestors who selected for high euphoria and strong livers.... all because alcohol was healthier than water?
- lazyasciiart 5y ago
  Delivery method is an important factor. Nothing that works through injection had a chance to become popular until quite recently, for instance.
- samatman 5y ago
  Nope, I'm quite convinced it's the varying availability of the other substances. Coffee, tea, and tobacco, became at least as widespread once global trade made that possible. Coca was late to the party because it doesn't grow well outside of its native region. Cannabis is an odd one, in that it was extremely widespread and making solid inroads in Europe and North America, when it became a weapon for United States racial policy, and a jobs program for federal police after the repeal of Prohibition. Coca and cocaine got caught up in the same dragnet. Opium and its derivatives are genuinely pernicious and attempts to normalize their use outside of medicine have been resisted repeatedly throughout history. Which leaves psychedelics, which are... weird, and also were largely unknown until some anthropologists in the 40s and 50s drew attention to them. The history of 'modern' drug prohibition owes more to politics than the inherent properties of the substances in question.
  - fomine3 5y ago
    Alcohol can be easily brewed from many foods without global trade, unlike other drugs
  - spodek 5y ago
    You left out refined sugar in its many forms. In total deaths and disease as well as cost to society dwarfs everything. The combination of being legal, advertised, and by some measures as addictive as any others is tough to beat.
- LocalH 5y ago
  What are you talking about? Cannabis, psilocybin, and mescaline consumption have a very old history as well.
- agogdog 5y ago
  They were drinking beer and wine most of the time, and often much weaker than our modern beer and wine. Hard liquor is a big part of the problem, but social life in America is a total disaster and overshadows everything else.
- bnralt 5y ago
  Fermentation is a great way to store excess food, which is why there's a ton of fermented foods across cultures. For civilizations centered around cereal crops, it makes sense that you'd see a lot of fermented cereal crops such as beer. You can definitely see the benefit for an ancient civilization, since you're able to store many more calories which allows you to grow a much larger population base. But like many things associated with the move to agrarian civilizations, being good for the civilization doesn't necessarilly correlate with being good for the individual.
- _jal 5y ago
  > None of the other supposedly less harmful, banned drugs are so ubiquitous You get alcohol when fruit spoils. Our experience with it is quite literally as old as foraging. This doesn't tell us anything about how harmful or not harmful alcohol is. As far as ubiquity, plant-based substances had to follow migration or trade routes to gain use outside of their native habitats. Alcohol was coextensive with any food .
  - jmcdl 5y ago
    The fact that alcohol has been a part of human existence for so long might support my hypothesis, if you believe that humans physiology is at least partly shaped by human dietary habits over many thousands of years.
quickthrowman 5y ago
Alcohol is more dangerous than all other drugs, in my experience (been addicted to alcohol and heroin in the past, and have abused every common drug) and in my opinion. The addiction rate for cocaine/heroin/meth may be higher, but the negative effects of those drugs mostly stem from the high cost (theft) and insane profit margins (murder). If a heroin addict could get their supply for $5/day (and have it be pure heroin w no fentanyl) then nearly all of the negatives would disappear.
- galaxyLogic 5y ago
  Isn't meth just plain destructive, what it does to your body, and brain?
  - nick__m 5y ago
    It's somewhat more subtle, pure medical grade methamphetamine (desoxyn) taken orally is theoretically the best ADD medicine available but it's almost never prescribed for political reasons. Meth has lot less sympathetic side effects than dextroamphetamine per unit of dopaminergic stimulation, this simple difference enables abuser to consume ridiculously large dose and those high doses are destructive. https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/know-your-amphetamines https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/know-your-amphetamines
    - nszceta 5y ago
      Amphetamine-like drugs are used as pills or capsules, powder, or fluid, and can be ingested orally, smoked, insufflated, or injected intravenously. They cause euphoria but tolerance develops rapidly. Clinically evident effects of the two drugs are nearly indistinguishable, but methamphetamine appears to be a more potent stimulant. Amphetamine and methamphetamine induce euphoria, increased energy, alertness and libido, agitation and anxiety, increased locomotor activity and stereotypical movements, as well as hyperthermia, increased heart rate and blood pressure, vasoconstriction, bronchodilatation, hyperglycemia, and suppress appetite. Psychosis, hyperkinesia, seizures, and coma have been described in emergency patients. Chronic users may develop behavioral disorders, impulsivity, punding (non-goal directed repetitive activities), hallucinations, tremor, choreoathetosis, dystonias, ataxia, and gait disturbances (41–43). Stereotyped involuntary choreoathetotic hyperkinesias are characteristic in arms, neck and head, and usually disappear during sleep, while teeth grinding (bruxism) may occur during day and night. Movement disorders may develop during abuse or abstinence, and though they a usually resolve within few days, they may remain for a long time in some cases, even after the abuse of amphetamines is stopped. Treatment with benzodiazepines or neuroleptics may be of benefit (43–45). Choreiform movements have developed as an adverse effect in the therapeutic setting of amphetamine used in the treatment of ADHD in adult and pediatric patients (46, 47). [41] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23688691/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23688691/ [43] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3355623/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3355623/ [45] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7299411/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7299411/ [46] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22883290/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22883290/ [47] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15254949/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15254949/

Alcohol is a harmful drug much worse than some of the other banned drugs on the market.

by maya24 5y ago

Alcohol is a harmful drug much worse than some of the other banned drugs on the market.

This is a common refrain but at the same time it seems to be the one substance commonly used across most of the world since ancient times. None of the other supposedly less harmful, banned drugs are so ubiquitous. Perhaps there's a good reason for this (besides varying availability of other substances)?

gilbetron 5y ago
It's a really interesting question. Maybe the benefits of having something to drink that has alcohol to kill of pathogens outweigh the negatives?
- chitowneats 5y ago
  I'm sorry, which pathogens are killed by imbibing alcohol? I've never heard of such a thing, even historically. Edit: Next time I'll do a cursory googling before commenting. This is apparently an existing hypothesis for common types of bacteria such as e coli, salmonella, etc in the drink itself, not in the body.
  - JoeAltmaier 5y ago
    I wonder if they meant killing pathogens in the drink, before you drank it. Clean water is a modern thing.
    - chitowneats 5y ago
      Bingo. Edited my comment above.
  - detaro 5y ago
    Pathogens have a harder time living in alcoholic beverages, making the drink itself safer.
bart_spoon 5y ago
One good reason is because alcoholic beverages could be stored for long periods of time and be safe for drinking. Water can become contaminated over time if bacteria is allowed to grow while it’s being stored, so it has to be relatively fresh to drink. Other options like milk would spoil quickly. Alcohol generally didn’t have these issues, giving it some utility that outweighed its advantages. In an age where other beverages are as easily accessible for people living in the modern world, it’s utility isn’t there any more and you are left with all the downsides.
- throwawaycuriou 5y ago
  is it plausible humans initially hated the taste of alcohol and suffered worse hangovers, but in a manner of a few thousand years descend from ancestors who selected for high euphoria and strong livers.... all because alcohol was healthier than water?
lazyasciiart 5y ago
Delivery method is an important factor. Nothing that works through injection had a chance to become popular until quite recently, for instance.
samatman 5y ago
Nope, I'm quite convinced it's the varying availability of the other substances. Coffee, tea, and tobacco, became at least as widespread once global trade made that possible. Coca was late to the party because it doesn't grow well outside of its native region. Cannabis is an odd one, in that it was extremely widespread and making solid inroads in Europe and North America, when it became a weapon for United States racial policy, and a jobs program for federal police after the repeal of Prohibition. Coca and cocaine got caught up in the same dragnet. Opium and its derivatives are genuinely pernicious and attempts to normalize their use outside of medicine have been resisted repeatedly throughout history. Which leaves psychedelics, which are... weird, and also were largely unknown until some anthropologists in the 40s and 50s drew attention to them. The history of 'modern' drug prohibition owes more to politics than the inherent properties of the substances in question.
- fomine3 5y ago
  Alcohol can be easily brewed from many foods without global trade, unlike other drugs
- spodek 5y ago
  You left out refined sugar in its many forms. In total deaths and disease as well as cost to society dwarfs everything. The combination of being legal, advertised, and by some measures as addictive as any others is tough to beat.
LocalH 5y ago
What are you talking about? Cannabis, psilocybin, and mescaline consumption have a very old history as well.
agogdog 5y ago
They were drinking beer and wine most of the time, and often much weaker than our modern beer and wine. Hard liquor is a big part of the problem, but social life in America is a total disaster and overshadows everything else.
bnralt 5y ago
Fermentation is a great way to store excess food, which is why there's a ton of fermented foods across cultures. For civilizations centered around cereal crops, it makes sense that you'd see a lot of fermented cereal crops such as beer. You can definitely see the benefit for an ancient civilization, since you're able to store many more calories which allows you to grow a much larger population base. But like many things associated with the move to agrarian civilizations, being good for the civilization doesn't necessarilly correlate with being good for the individual.
_jal 5y ago
> None of the other supposedly less harmful, banned drugs are so ubiquitous You get alcohol when fruit spoils. Our experience with it is quite literally as old as foraging. This doesn't tell us anything about how harmful or not harmful alcohol is. As far as ubiquity, plant-based substances had to follow migration or trade routes to gain use outside of their native habitats. Alcohol was coextensive with any food .
- jmcdl 5y ago
  The fact that alcohol has been a part of human existence for so long might support my hypothesis, if you believe that humans physiology is at least partly shaped by human dietary habits over many thousands of years.

quickthrowman 5y ago

Alcohol is more dangerous than all other drugs, in my experience (been addicted to alcohol and heroin in the past, and have abused every common drug) and in my opinion. The addiction rate for cocaine/heroin/meth may be higher, but the negative effects of those drugs mostly stem from the high cost (theft) and insane profit margins (murder). If a heroin addict could get their supply for $5/day (and have it be pure heroin w no fentanyl) then nearly all of the negatives would disappear.

galaxyLogic 5y ago
Isn't meth just plain destructive, what it does to your body, and brain?
- nick__m 5y ago
  It's somewhat more subtle, pure medical grade methamphetamine (desoxyn) taken orally is theoretically the best ADD medicine available but it's almost never prescribed for political reasons. Meth has lot less sympathetic side effects than dextroamphetamine per unit of dopaminergic stimulation, this simple difference enables abuser to consume ridiculously large dose and those high doses are destructive. https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/know-your-amphetamines https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/know-your-amphetamines
  - nszceta 5y ago
    Amphetamine-like drugs are used as pills or capsules, powder, or fluid, and can be ingested orally, smoked, insufflated, or injected intravenously. They cause euphoria but tolerance develops rapidly. Clinically evident effects of the two drugs are nearly indistinguishable, but methamphetamine appears to be a more potent stimulant. Amphetamine and methamphetamine induce euphoria, increased energy, alertness and libido, agitation and anxiety, increased locomotor activity and stereotypical movements, as well as hyperthermia, increased heart rate and blood pressure, vasoconstriction, bronchodilatation, hyperglycemia, and suppress appetite. Psychosis, hyperkinesia, seizures, and coma have been described in emergency patients. Chronic users may develop behavioral disorders, impulsivity, punding (non-goal directed repetitive activities), hallucinations, tremor, choreoathetosis, dystonias, ataxia, and gait disturbances (41–43). Stereotyped involuntary choreoathetotic hyperkinesias are characteristic in arms, neck and head, and usually disappear during sleep, while teeth grinding (bruxism) may occur during day and night. Movement disorders may develop during abuse or abstinence, and though they a usually resolve within few days, they may remain for a long time in some cases, even after the abuse of amphetamines is stopped. Treatment with benzodiazepines or neuroleptics may be of benefit (43–45). Choreiform movements have developed as an adverse effect in the therapeutic setting of amphetamine used in the treatment of ADHD in adult and pediatric patients (46, 47). [41] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23688691/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23688691/ [43] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3355623/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3355623/ [45] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7299411/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7299411/ [46] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22883290/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22883290/ [47] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15254949/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15254949/