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How on earth are you seriously claiming that Tesla "doesn't run well"? They've gone from nothing, to a major competitive auto manufacturer, in 10 years. Not o

by blhack 5y ago

How on earth are you seriously claiming that Tesla "doesn't run well"? They've gone from nothing, to a major competitive auto manufacturer, in 10 years. Not only that, they've built out the service and infrastructure to support themselves as a major auto manufacturer, as a side project. Seriously look at this map: https://www.tesla.com/findus?v=2&bounds=58.46119224394316%2C-41.738197560485844%2C14.830655521976261%2C-156.79500793951416&zoom=5&filters=store%2Cservice%2Csupercharger%2Cdestination%20charger https://www.tesla.com/findus?v=2&bounds=58.46119224394316%2C... If this was tesla's only accomplishment, it would still be a major one.

sdfkbadmiop 5y ago
If we judge how well something works by its size or how quickly it grows, the USSR was a resounding success. I judge Tesla by the cars it makes, which are crap.
graeme 5y ago
They mean relative to SpaceX. Within their respective fields, it seems like SpaceX is much more ahead of the competition than Tesla is.
- blhack 5y ago
  Is Tesla not far ahead of the competitors? Im currently sitting at one of the Tesla Superchargers in Phoenix. It’s full of cars. There is a CHAdeMO charger across the lot and I’ve never seen somebody use it. Have any of Tesla’s competitors (other than the Ford ~~model t~~ mustang) even shipped yet? “Nikola” appears to have been a blatant scam. Rivian hasn’t shipped. Lucid hasn’t shipped. Meanwhile Tesla has a month long waitlist (at least), a retail store network, charger network, service network, and is on the 4th generation of actual shipped products. That’s sounds exactly like spacex to me. The competitors (if you could even call them that yet) are trying their best to copy SpaceX but so far even Jeff Bezos seemingly infinite wealth hasn’t been able to do it.
  - graeme 5y ago
    Regular manufacturers have lots of full electric cars. As you say, SpaceX basically has no competitors. I’m not saying Tesla isn’t ahead. I’m saying SpaceX is comparatively much more ahead. Tesla at least has competition.
  - ac29 5y ago
    > Have any of Tesla’s competitors (other than the Ford ~~model t~~ mustang) even shipped yet? VW's brands (VW/Audi/Porsche) are shipping and leading the market in Europe. Deliveries in the US are ramping up as well.
  - dgudkov 5y ago
    >Is Tesla not far ahead of the competitors? Depends on region. "Renault's Zoe was the best-selling electric car in Europe in 2020, beating the Tesla Model 3 to second place." [1] [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/972845/electric-vehicles-leading-models-europe/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/972845/electric-vehicles...
    - dagw 5y ago
      Also depends on how/what you are measuring. The Zoe is almost $25k cheaper than the base model standard range Model 3 (at least here in Sweden), which explains why it sells so well. I don't think anyone would claim it is a better car than the Tesla, or ahead technically in any way, and you could argue that they aren't in really competing since one is so much smaller and cheaper than the other. But yea, in Europe a lot of manufacturers sells decent fully electric cars.
  - rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
    Doesn't Phoenix have Waymo full self driving taxis that literally anyone can take upon landing at the airport? Tesla might be (way) ahead of auto-manufacturers when it comes to churning out individually-owned electric cars and providing a great experience for their customers, but I don't think Tesla is ahead at all when it comes to self-driving.
    - 5y ago
- nickik 5y ago
  That might be true but its a bad standard to use. There are lots of highly competitive car companies of gigantic scale already existing. Rocket launch was a far smaller market that was basically run by governments only for all practical purposes. Both business for by all practical reasoning have performed absurdly well.
dexterdog 5y ago
If it weren't for their ridiculous stock price nobody would call them a major competitive auto manufacturer. Their sales are not major and if it weren't for their ability to sell credits they would not be remotely competitive.
- chemmail 5y ago
  Sure, except their stock prices reflect the brand itself. Drive in front of a 5 year old and they know "mommy thats the car that can drive itself!" What car brand has ever has that type of reach? If you have a sportcar, you get a generic ooo look a ferrari/lamborgini. Something most will never reach. But a tesla will be their next car. The only other brand that has this reach would be Apple. Every single communications player have been gunning for them since iPhone 1. No one has even come close.
  - dexterdog 5y ago
    You over-estimate your typical 5yo by a large amount.
    - Corrado 5y ago
      I don't know about that. My plain white Model Y gets a LOT of attention from people of all ages, including the under 10 crowd. I've driven other, more flashy cars, and have never gotten as many "Oh look!" reactions in my neighborhood. It constantly surprises me, in a good way.

by blhack 5y ago

sdfkbadmiop 5y ago

If we judge how well something works by its size or how quickly it grows, the USSR was a resounding success. I judge Tesla by the cars it makes, which are crap.

graeme 5y ago

They mean relative to SpaceX. Within their respective fields, it seems like SpaceX is much more ahead of the competition than Tesla is.

blhack 5y ago
Is Tesla not far ahead of the competitors? Im currently sitting at one of the Tesla Superchargers in Phoenix. It’s full of cars. There is a CHAdeMO charger across the lot and I’ve never seen somebody use it. Have any of Tesla’s competitors (other than the Ford ~~model t~~ mustang) even shipped yet? “Nikola” appears to have been a blatant scam. Rivian hasn’t shipped. Lucid hasn’t shipped. Meanwhile Tesla has a month long waitlist (at least), a retail store network, charger network, service network, and is on the 4th generation of actual shipped products. That’s sounds exactly like spacex to me. The competitors (if you could even call them that yet) are trying their best to copy SpaceX but so far even Jeff Bezos seemingly infinite wealth hasn’t been able to do it.
- graeme 5y ago
  Regular manufacturers have lots of full electric cars. As you say, SpaceX basically has no competitors. I’m not saying Tesla isn’t ahead. I’m saying SpaceX is comparatively much more ahead. Tesla at least has competition.
- ac29 5y ago
  > Have any of Tesla’s competitors (other than the Ford ~~model t~~ mustang) even shipped yet? VW's brands (VW/Audi/Porsche) are shipping and leading the market in Europe. Deliveries in the US are ramping up as well.
- dgudkov 5y ago
  >Is Tesla not far ahead of the competitors? Depends on region. "Renault's Zoe was the best-selling electric car in Europe in 2020, beating the Tesla Model 3 to second place." [1] [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/972845/electric-vehicles-leading-models-europe/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/972845/electric-vehicles...
  - dagw 5y ago
    Also depends on how/what you are measuring. The Zoe is almost $25k cheaper than the base model standard range Model 3 (at least here in Sweden), which explains why it sells so well. I don't think anyone would claim it is a better car than the Tesla, or ahead technically in any way, and you could argue that they aren't in really competing since one is so much smaller and cheaper than the other. But yea, in Europe a lot of manufacturers sells decent fully electric cars.
- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
  Doesn't Phoenix have Waymo full self driving taxis that literally anyone can take upon landing at the airport? Tesla might be (way) ahead of auto-manufacturers when it comes to churning out individually-owned electric cars and providing a great experience for their customers, but I don't think Tesla is ahead at all when it comes to self-driving.
  - 5y ago
nickik 5y ago
That might be true but its a bad standard to use. There are lots of highly competitive car companies of gigantic scale already existing. Rocket launch was a far smaller market that was basically run by governments only for all practical purposes. Both business for by all practical reasoning have performed absurdly well.

dexterdog 5y ago

If it weren't for their ridiculous stock price nobody would call them a major competitive auto manufacturer. Their sales are not major and if it weren't for their ability to sell credits they would not be remotely competitive.

chemmail 5y ago
Sure, except their stock prices reflect the brand itself. Drive in front of a 5 year old and they know "mommy thats the car that can drive itself!" What car brand has ever has that type of reach? If you have a sportcar, you get a generic ooo look a ferrari/lamborgini. Something most will never reach. But a tesla will be their next car. The only other brand that has this reach would be Apple. Every single communications player have been gunning for them since iPhone 1. No one has even come close.
- dexterdog 5y ago
  You over-estimate your typical 5yo by a large amount.
  - Corrado 5y ago
    I don't know about that. My plain white Model Y gets a LOT of attention from people of all ages, including the under 10 crowd. I've driven other, more flashy cars, and have never gotten as many "Oh look!" reactions in my neighborhood. It constantly surprises me, in a good way.