7 ms·

I'm in the same boat. It's been difficult. I cannot express how grateful I am to Jose Vargas for writing this story. I was brought here as a kid 13 years ago.

I'm in the same boat. It's been difficult. I cannot express how grateful I am to Jose Vargas for writing this story. I was brought here as a kid 13 years ago. I'm 24 now. I also graduated from a "top" university -- like that matters. I guess my parents weren't smart enough to get a fake social security card for me back then, I wish they were. I've also been fighting for the Dream Act for what feels like an eternity. I made a site and still maintain it, have met with Senators, protested in front of the White House, several times, other things. I'm loosing hope. I lost hope in Congress long ago. I lost hope in this President in December, when he failed to stand by us and the vote. I don't have anything left to wait for. I'm still "hiding," most of my friends have no idea, but I see less and less reason to do so every day. I just can't take it anymore. I'm worth _something_. I'm competent coder, and fuck it all, at least I got that, my mind, and my family. Anybody who wants to debate the pros and cons of immigration reform can go to hell. I'm done reading the hate mail. I'm done debating. I am done listening to those masked bigots. I know what it is like to live like this having done nothing wrong. I know that I don't deserve the punishment. If we can't agree on the fact that I am American and should have basic rights, then we have nothing to talk about. I'm not asking for anything except recognition. Btw, people who were brought here on fake documents, as me and Jose, can't get married for papers. So even if Jose wasn't gay, he wouldn't be able to adjust based on marriage. It's unfortunate that people who come here on student visas get married -- assuming they have enough money -- and have a green card in six months. People like me and Jose, homebred Americans if ya will, are forever tarnished with this inherited title. Hello, my name is "illegal immigrant." That's what I feel like every single day. Every morning in the shower, I utter the words "I am so fucking tired." And I am.

shasta 15y ago
What country did you immigrate here from?
ebiester 15y ago
Trust me, there's nobody on this board that is more sympathetic than I am. I am 110% behind you with the DREAM act, and my money has gone to Immigration Equality which has lobbied for this issue. (For different reasons, but suffice to say I'm an ally.) There's one simple problem with changing immigration, and that's the system is working as intended. Farm workers can't unionize nearly as easily if they are undocumented, and undocumented workers don't have to be paid standard wages. In fact, they can explicitly be paid substandard wages and there is no way to complain. Your parents, most likely. Undocumented workers lower unskilled work wages and working conditions far past what a documented system would. Further, as workers age out of the ability to do backbreaking farm work, they have no legal protections on which to rely, and can be thrown back out more easily. The DREAM act, however, brings people into the system with legal protections, people who can't easily be exploited in the same way their parents are. Your parents, that is. And that's why we face an uphill battle with the DREAM act. It sounds conspiratorial, and nobody would explicitly admit this; sometimes, we get to status quo through unintended consequences, but people build their businesses on unintended consequences, and change isn't something they take easily, especially when it impacts their bottom line.
- Maxious 15y ago
  Georgia's tough anti-illegal-immigrant law drove a sizable fraction of the migrant labor pool out of the state, and as a result, "millions of dollars' worth of blueberries, onions, melons and other crops [are] unharvested and rotting in the fields." http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/06/georgias-harsh-immigration-law-costs-millions-in-unharvested-crops/240774/ http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/06/georgias... Surely there would be some way to legalize low cost unskilled workers at the expense of giving them some basic rights.
  - ebiester 15y ago
    Bus them in from Atlanta and pay them legal wages and working conditions. Amazingly though, the price of food will go up. It's a labor supply shock, not a shortage however. The people who would be hired would be inexperienced and more expensive.
- onlineph 15y ago
  For me, those documents are but papers that marks the existence of a certain person in the political angle. It seems like papers are more valuable than life. Jose and you deserved recognition by papers. Hopefully, many people like you would support the Dream Act. Anyways, it's the states policy.
reddweb 15y ago
Its simple. Do you implement the LAW ? or let law hijacked by emotions/plight? The legal aliens are idiots?. There are literally billions of people living below poverty line, who will sacrifice everything just to come to America - legally!!! Hardships, emotions and empathy has no place when you take into account 300 million citizens who are legally bound to support the system (tax, servcies, public shcools, hopsitals etc) The real gem of this story is that the Secret Service and Whitehouse staff/security couldn't catch the fake social security card/number, that Vargas submitted. LoL! If those institutions cant catch, then who can? Anybody can come here illegally and live/work enjoy. The fear (no reason for it) they have is similar to fear we have of accident - it rarely happens but needs vigilance/careful.
- geezer 15y ago
  If law is unjust, you change the law. It has happened in American plenty of times. Hell, America was founded in part because an unjust law was imposed on us.
  - reddweb 15y ago
    unjust to whom? lets open borders ? vargas, when he was smuggled into this country, was not "special case" at that time. This is a typical, hallmark fraud case. The coyote, fake passport, fake student visa, fake greencard the list goes on. you want the Law to be just in above case? i am just saying there needs to be punishment and accountability. Believe me, the US immigration law is lot better, just and clever than most other countries. There are lot of legal aliens that comply with it, and grateful for the opportunity.
    - kelnos 15y ago
      But in this case, punish whom? Vargas? He was 12 when all this happened, had no say in the matter, and didn't really know what was going on until he turned 16. What should he have done then? Turned himself in as an illegal immigrant?
      - 15y ago
maxwin 15y ago
Like his facebook page. Show some support. http://www.facebook.com/JoseAJournalist?sk=wall http://www.facebook.com/JoseAJournalist?sk=wall
- lupatus 15y ago
  Or suggest that he should return to the Philippines?
  - wnight 15y ago
    If it has to balance out we could send you...
mahyarm 15y ago
Go apply with canada, you have a clean slate there and you can get a green card on arrival with all of your qualifications: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2686136 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2686136 After 4 years (3 years + 1 year of waiting for the citizenship test, passport generation, etc) you can come back and work in the US under TN at the border. You can also travel to the USA by applying for a 5-10 year B visa and visit as you wish once you've had your your permanent residence card for a while. This all contingent if you haven't had any issues with us immigration. Singapore is also an option.
- nkassis 15y ago
  Or just stay in Canada. It's a nice place to live. It's very similar to living in the US. As a programmer you could easily find a job.
  - HowardRoark 15y ago
    http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/tool/tool_06.asp http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/tool/tool_06.... Can programmers even apply under the skilled category anymore? I thought Canada only wanted computer managers since 2009(?).
    - mahyarm 15y ago
      I don't know, there might be a way to do it still for Canada. For example cooks and chefs can get a PR card o_o, it would be good for your health to take up a 1 year cooking sabbatical or something (geek out about diet and such). Australia accepts computer professionals on arrival also under the software engineer category (60 points, pretty good!) with a skills test. Australians also have a TN like arrangement with the us, but it's a dual intent visa (E-3) so it's even easier to get the green card. The waiting period although is 6 years (5 years + 1 year citizenship test & passport generation). Singapore is also extremely quick if he has the gumption to start a consulting business there, or get employment, it's possible to get PR in 6 months and singapore also has a special TN type H1B. Singapore although is a 1 passport citizenship, it's major downfall. Mexico also has the TN arrangement along with Canada as a part of NAFTA and Chile also has a TN like arrangement also. The somewhat open secret with these TN visas is that even if they are not dual intent, if your willing to stay in the country until green card and renew inside until you have it you can still successfully for permanent residence. You can also apply directly outside of the USA for permanent residence under the EB-* visas. You'll be waiting years and have to have a really really nice employer/friends who's willing to wait that long. There are also the dual intent L-1A, L-1B visas. There are options for immigrating to the USA, even if it might take 20 years in the end... http://canberra.usembassy.gov/e3visa/qualifying.html http://canberra.usembassy.gov/e3visa/qualifying.html http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/general-skilled-migration/175/ http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/general-skilled-migration/175... http://www.guidemesingapore.com/relocation/pr/singapore-permanent-residence-schemes http://www.guidemesingapore.com/relocation/pr/singapore-perm...
lupatus 15y ago
You are a criminal and not a "homebred American". You should stop punishing yourself and return to your home country. It sounds like you have the skills to be very successful there.
- pyre 15y ago
  So is 'American' culture or tribe affiliation? If he/she grew up in America then deporting him/her is like sending them to a foreign country for all intents and purposes. What if he/she doesn't even know her/his native language? It's not such a black and white issue, as much as you might want it to be.
  - daniel1980fl2 15y ago
    none of this is relevant. if you don't know, I have you know in US there are tens of thousands abortions legally made every day. There are thousands of court orders to separate natural born children from their parents, legally, every day. What on earth would made you think someone at DHS or ICE or BIA would cry a single tear over this or another person's story?? this is United States of America! We bomb foreign countries in the name of peace in US by using remote drones killing hundreds of thousands mothers, fathers, wifes and children. If the world is like a school class, then US is a bully rich brat that can do whatever it feels like and there is nothing you can do! but rest assured the party will be over soon. thanks to its foreign predator policy, us always had 40% less expensive oil than others, so this could be so called "dream land" because human dreams are made of pleasures and needs, and both are cheaper in us than anywhere else. once dollar weaken even more the euro/yun basket will replace petro dollar and noone will be interested to discount cruide to us. thanks to supply and demand, within couple weeks you will see prices of everything, starting with diapers, ending on houses skyrocketing. the country will literally implode. game over! but this is already another thread...
- akat 15y ago
  at least, get in the line.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
qusiba 15y ago
Why not try to immigrate to Canada?
freshfunk 15y ago
The story was a moving one and I hope Vargas gets to stay. With that said, I think illegal immigration creates all kinds of societal problems and is unfair to legal immigrants. The problem it creates is that there's enormous stress on those that are illegal. They live in the shadows and can be taken advantage of. My own personal experience was driving in LA and being rear-ended by someone who then fled the scene (most likely illegal). They work for less than minimum wage and don't cooperate with law enforcement for fear of deportation. I'm a child of legal immigrants so I'm naturally biased. There is a legal system and many people every year try to go through that system like my parents did. I see illegal immigrants as "cutting in line" and I see nothing fair about it. But I'm also human. People like Vargas had no choice (sent here as a kid) and has made a life here. I also sympathize those that flee poverty, crime and even wanting a brighter future. I also grew up in LA and know that many illegal immigrants live decent lives.. heck some of my friends are probably undocumented. But completely opening the borders is not feasible. Creating systems that encourage illegal immigration only make the problem worse (and exacerbate the problems mentioned above).
- ido 15y ago
  There is a legal system and many people every year try to go through that system like my parents did. I see illegal immigrants as "cutting in line" and I see nothing fair about it. The problem is that if you are not a student there is basically no way to legally immigrate except: 1. Marrying an american 2. Indentured servitude via H1-B (hard to get, and if you leave your job/get fired you have to find a new job in two weeks or leave) It used to be a lot easier in the past.
  - l0c0b0x 15y ago
    You forgot sponsoring/petitioning a relative AND the visa lottery (a relative of mine was lucky enough to receive one of these, was able to bring his whole family here, eventually). It has taken us 20 years to bring about 35-40 relatives from South America (more are waiting--in line)... it takes time, money and a LOT of patience. Also helps if you don't get into problems with the law.
  - deleted 15y ago
anigbrowl 15y ago
I'm not in the same boat, but I'm in the next one over - I too am an undocumented alien. You are not alone.
blrs 15y ago
I think Milton Friedman nailed it when he said that the biggest obstacle to a freer immigration policy is the welfare state. "[Throughout the history of the U.S.] you had a flood of immigrants, millions of them, coming to this country. What brought them here? It was the hope for a better life for them and their children. And, in the main, they succeeded. It is hard to find any century in history, in which so large a number of people experienced so great an improvement in the conditions of their life, in the opportunities open to them, as in the period of the 19th and early 20th century. You will find hardly a soul who will say that it was a bad thing. Almost everybody will say it was a good thing. ‘But what about today? Do you think we should have free immigration?’ ‘Oh, no,’ they’ll say, ‘We couldn’t possibly have free immigration today. Why, that would flood us with immigrants from India, and God knows where. We’d be driven down to a bare subsistence level.’ What’s the difference? How can people be so inconsistent? Why is it that free immigration was a good thing before 1914 and free immigration is a bad thing today? Well, there is a sense in which that answer is right. There’s a sense in which free immigration, in the same sense as we had it before 1914 is not possible today. Why not? Because it is one thing to have free immigration to jobs. It is another thing to have free immigration to welfare. And you cannot have both. If you have a welfare state, if you have a state in which every resident is promised a certain minimal level of income, or a minimum level of subsistence, regardless of whether he or she works or not, produces it or not. Then it really is an impossible thing. If you have free immigration, in the way we had it before 1914, everybody benefited. The people who were here benefited. The people who came benefited. Because nobody would come unless he, or his family, thought he would do better here than he would elsewhere. And, the new immigrants provided additional resources, provided additional possibilities for the people already here. So everybody can mutually benefit. But on the other hand, if you come under circumstances where each person is entitled to a pro-rata share of the pot, to take an extreme example, or even to a low level of the pie, than the effect of that situation is that free immigration, would mean a reduction of everybody to the same, uniform level. Of course, I’m exaggerating, it wouldn’t go quite that far, but it would go in that direction. And it is that perception, that leads people to adopt what at first seems like inconsistent values." You can read the rest at: http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2008/02/what-milton-friedman-really-said.html http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2008/02/what-milton-friedma...
- 15y ago
chaostheory 15y ago
I was in the same boat too. Reading this article brought back a lot of painful memories. Like the author, I only found out years after I assimilated. For a while, I couldn't even look at the flag or say the pledge without feeling depressed. Thankfully one of my divorced parents married a citizen close to when I started high school. Eventually I was eligible to apply for citizenship sometime late in college. I still remember the citizenship 'test' I had to take. It consisted of telling the tester: the colors of flag, reading a sentence that said George Washington was the 1st US president, and telling her who the current president was. Ironically I had passed an AP US history course sometime ago with flying colors.
lelele 15y ago
Why do you want to stay in a country which does not want you? Send them all to hell, and take your knowledge and abilities where they are appreciated. USA are not the World. I've heard Canada is very open to knowledge workers from outside. Learn about other countries. Good luck.

shasta 15y ago

What country did you immigrate here from?

ebiester 15y ago

Trust me, there's nobody on this board that is more sympathetic than I am. I am 110% behind you with the DREAM act, and my money has gone to Immigration Equality which has lobbied for this issue. (For different reasons, but suffice to say I'm an ally.) There's one simple problem with changing immigration, and that's the system is working as intended. Farm workers can't unionize nearly as easily if they are undocumented, and undocumented workers don't have to be paid standard wages. In fact, they can explicitly be paid substandard wages and there is no way to complain. Your parents, most likely. Undocumented workers lower unskilled work wages and working conditions far past what a documented system would. Further, as workers age out of the ability to do backbreaking farm work, they have no legal protections on which to rely, and can be thrown back out more easily. The DREAM act, however, brings people into the system with legal protections, people who can't easily be exploited in the same way their parents are. Your parents, that is. And that's why we face an uphill battle with the DREAM act. It sounds conspiratorial, and nobody would explicitly admit this; sometimes, we get to status quo through unintended consequences, but people build their businesses on unintended consequences, and change isn't something they take easily, especially when it impacts their bottom line.

Maxious 15y ago
Georgia's tough anti-illegal-immigrant law drove a sizable fraction of the migrant labor pool out of the state, and as a result, "millions of dollars' worth of blueberries, onions, melons and other crops [are] unharvested and rotting in the fields." http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/06/georgias-harsh-immigration-law-costs-millions-in-unharvested-crops/240774/ http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/06/georgias... Surely there would be some way to legalize low cost unskilled workers at the expense of giving them some basic rights.
- ebiester 15y ago
  Bus them in from Atlanta and pay them legal wages and working conditions. Amazingly though, the price of food will go up. It's a labor supply shock, not a shortage however. The people who would be hired would be inexperienced and more expensive.
onlineph 15y ago
For me, those documents are but papers that marks the existence of a certain person in the political angle. It seems like papers are more valuable than life. Jose and you deserved recognition by papers. Hopefully, many people like you would support the Dream Act. Anyways, it's the states policy.

reddweb 15y ago

Its simple. Do you implement the LAW ? or let law hijacked by emotions/plight? The legal aliens are idiots?. There are literally billions of people living below poverty line, who will sacrifice everything just to come to America - legally!!! Hardships, emotions and empathy has no place when you take into account 300 million citizens who are legally bound to support the system (tax, servcies, public shcools, hopsitals etc) The real gem of this story is that the Secret Service and Whitehouse staff/security couldn't catch the fake social security card/number, that Vargas submitted. LoL! If those institutions cant catch, then who can? Anybody can come here illegally and live/work enjoy. The fear (no reason for it) they have is similar to fear we have of accident - it rarely happens but needs vigilance/careful.

geezer 15y ago
If law is unjust, you change the law. It has happened in American plenty of times. Hell, America was founded in part because an unjust law was imposed on us.
- reddweb 15y ago
  unjust to whom? lets open borders ? vargas, when he was smuggled into this country, was not "special case" at that time. This is a typical, hallmark fraud case. The coyote, fake passport, fake student visa, fake greencard the list goes on. you want the Law to be just in above case? i am just saying there needs to be punishment and accountability. Believe me, the US immigration law is lot better, just and clever than most other countries. There are lot of legal aliens that comply with it, and grateful for the opportunity.
  - kelnos 15y ago
    But in this case, punish whom? Vargas? He was 12 when all this happened, had no say in the matter, and didn't really know what was going on until he turned 16. What should he have done then? Turned himself in as an illegal immigrant?
    - 15y ago

maxwin 15y ago

Like his facebook page. Show some support. http://www.facebook.com/JoseAJournalist?sk=wall http://www.facebook.com/JoseAJournalist?sk=wall

lupatus 15y ago
Or suggest that he should return to the Philippines?
- wnight 15y ago
  If it has to balance out we could send you...

mahyarm 15y ago

Go apply with canada, you have a clean slate there and you can get a green card on arrival with all of your qualifications: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2686136 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2686136 After 4 years (3 years + 1 year of waiting for the citizenship test, passport generation, etc) you can come back and work in the US under TN at the border. You can also travel to the USA by applying for a 5-10 year B visa and visit as you wish once you've had your your permanent residence card for a while. This all contingent if you haven't had any issues with us immigration. Singapore is also an option.

nkassis 15y ago
Or just stay in Canada. It's a nice place to live. It's very similar to living in the US. As a programmer you could easily find a job.
- HowardRoark 15y ago
  http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/tool/tool_06.asp http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/tool/tool_06.... Can programmers even apply under the skilled category anymore? I thought Canada only wanted computer managers since 2009(?).
  - mahyarm 15y ago
    I don't know, there might be a way to do it still for Canada. For example cooks and chefs can get a PR card o_o, it would be good for your health to take up a 1 year cooking sabbatical or something (geek out about diet and such). Australia accepts computer professionals on arrival also under the software engineer category (60 points, pretty good!) with a skills test. Australians also have a TN like arrangement with the us, but it's a dual intent visa (E-3) so it's even easier to get the green card. The waiting period although is 6 years (5 years + 1 year citizenship test & passport generation). Singapore is also extremely quick if he has the gumption to start a consulting business there, or get employment, it's possible to get PR in 6 months and singapore also has a special TN type H1B. Singapore although is a 1 passport citizenship, it's major downfall. Mexico also has the TN arrangement along with Canada as a part of NAFTA and Chile also has a TN like arrangement also. The somewhat open secret with these TN visas is that even if they are not dual intent, if your willing to stay in the country until green card and renew inside until you have it you can still successfully for permanent residence. You can also apply directly outside of the USA for permanent residence under the EB-* visas. You'll be waiting years and have to have a really really nice employer/friends who's willing to wait that long. There are also the dual intent L-1A, L-1B visas. There are options for immigrating to the USA, even if it might take 20 years in the end... http://canberra.usembassy.gov/e3visa/qualifying.html http://canberra.usembassy.gov/e3visa/qualifying.html http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/general-skilled-migration/175/ http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/general-skilled-migration/175... http://www.guidemesingapore.com/relocation/pr/singapore-permanent-residence-schemes http://www.guidemesingapore.com/relocation/pr/singapore-perm...

lupatus 15y ago

You are a criminal and not a "homebred American". You should stop punishing yourself and return to your home country. It sounds like you have the skills to be very successful there.

pyre 15y ago
So is 'American' culture or tribe affiliation? If he/she grew up in America then deporting him/her is like sending them to a foreign country for all intents and purposes. What if he/she doesn't even know her/his native language? It's not such a black and white issue, as much as you might want it to be.
- daniel1980fl2 15y ago
  none of this is relevant. if you don't know, I have you know in US there are tens of thousands abortions legally made every day. There are thousands of court orders to separate natural born children from their parents, legally, every day. What on earth would made you think someone at DHS or ICE or BIA would cry a single tear over this or another person's story?? this is United States of America! We bomb foreign countries in the name of peace in US by using remote drones killing hundreds of thousands mothers, fathers, wifes and children. If the world is like a school class, then US is a bully rich brat that can do whatever it feels like and there is nothing you can do! but rest assured the party will be over soon. thanks to its foreign predator policy, us always had 40% less expensive oil than others, so this could be so called "dream land" because human dreams are made of pleasures and needs, and both are cheaper in us than anywhere else. once dollar weaken even more the euro/yun basket will replace petro dollar and noone will be interested to discount cruide to us. thanks to supply and demand, within couple weeks you will see prices of everything, starting with diapers, ending on houses skyrocketing. the country will literally implode. game over! but this is already another thread...
akat 15y ago
at least, get in the line.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

qusiba 15y ago

Why not try to immigrate to Canada?

freshfunk 15y ago

The story was a moving one and I hope Vargas gets to stay. With that said, I think illegal immigration creates all kinds of societal problems and is unfair to legal immigrants. The problem it creates is that there's enormous stress on those that are illegal. They live in the shadows and can be taken advantage of. My own personal experience was driving in LA and being rear-ended by someone who then fled the scene (most likely illegal). They work for less than minimum wage and don't cooperate with law enforcement for fear of deportation. I'm a child of legal immigrants so I'm naturally biased. There is a legal system and many people every year try to go through that system like my parents did. I see illegal immigrants as "cutting in line" and I see nothing fair about it. But I'm also human. People like Vargas had no choice (sent here as a kid) and has made a life here. I also sympathize those that flee poverty, crime and even wanting a brighter future. I also grew up in LA and know that many illegal immigrants live decent lives.. heck some of my friends are probably undocumented. But completely opening the borders is not feasible. Creating systems that encourage illegal immigration only make the problem worse (and exacerbate the problems mentioned above).

ido 15y ago
There is a legal system and many people every year try to go through that system like my parents did. I see illegal immigrants as "cutting in line" and I see nothing fair about it. The problem is that if you are not a student there is basically no way to legally immigrate except: 1. Marrying an american 2. Indentured servitude via H1-B (hard to get, and if you leave your job/get fired you have to find a new job in two weeks or leave) It used to be a lot easier in the past.
- l0c0b0x 15y ago
  You forgot sponsoring/petitioning a relative AND the visa lottery (a relative of mine was lucky enough to receive one of these, was able to bring his whole family here, eventually). It has taken us 20 years to bring about 35-40 relatives from South America (more are waiting--in line)... it takes time, money and a LOT of patience. Also helps if you don't get into problems with the law.
- deleted 15y ago

anigbrowl 15y ago

I'm not in the same boat, but I'm in the next one over - I too am an undocumented alien. You are not alone.

blrs 15y ago

I think Milton Friedman nailed it when he said that the biggest obstacle to a freer immigration policy is the welfare state. "[Throughout the history of the U.S.] you had a flood of immigrants, millions of them, coming to this country. What brought them here? It was the hope for a better life for them and their children. And, in the main, they succeeded. It is hard to find any century in history, in which so large a number of people experienced so great an improvement in the conditions of their life, in the opportunities open to them, as in the period of the 19th and early 20th century. You will find hardly a soul who will say that it was a bad thing. Almost everybody will say it was a good thing. ‘But what about today? Do you think we should have free immigration?’ ‘Oh, no,’ they’ll say, ‘We couldn’t possibly have free immigration today. Why, that would flood us with immigrants from India, and God knows where. We’d be driven down to a bare subsistence level.’ What’s the difference? How can people be so inconsistent? Why is it that free immigration was a good thing before 1914 and free immigration is a bad thing today? Well, there is a sense in which that answer is right. There’s a sense in which free immigration, in the same sense as we had it before 1914 is not possible today. Why not? Because it is one thing to have free immigration to jobs. It is another thing to have free immigration to welfare. And you cannot have both. If you have a welfare state, if you have a state in which every resident is promised a certain minimal level of income, or a minimum level of subsistence, regardless of whether he or she works or not, produces it or not. Then it really is an impossible thing. If you have free immigration, in the way we had it before 1914, everybody benefited. The people who were here benefited. The people who came benefited. Because nobody would come unless he, or his family, thought he would do better here than he would elsewhere. And, the new immigrants provided additional resources, provided additional possibilities for the people already here. So everybody can mutually benefit. But on the other hand, if you come under circumstances where each person is entitled to a pro-rata share of the pot, to take an extreme example, or even to a low level of the pie, than the effect of that situation is that free immigration, would mean a reduction of everybody to the same, uniform level. Of course, I’m exaggerating, it wouldn’t go quite that far, but it would go in that direction. And it is that perception, that leads people to adopt what at first seems like inconsistent values." You can read the rest at: http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2008/02/what-milton-friedman-really-said.html http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2008/02/what-milton-friedma...

15y ago

chaostheory 15y ago

I was in the same boat too. Reading this article brought back a lot of painful memories. Like the author, I only found out years after I assimilated. For a while, I couldn't even look at the flag or say the pledge without feeling depressed. Thankfully one of my divorced parents married a citizen close to when I started high school. Eventually I was eligible to apply for citizenship sometime late in college. I still remember the citizenship 'test' I had to take. It consisted of telling the tester: the colors of flag, reading a sentence that said George Washington was the 1st US president, and telling her who the current president was. Ironically I had passed an AP US history course sometime ago with flying colors.

lelele 15y ago

Why do you want to stay in a country which does not want you? Send them all to hell, and take your knowledge and abilities where they are appreciated. USA are not the World. I've heard Canada is very open to knowledge workers from outside. Learn about other countries. Good luck.