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Actually no, this marks the beginning the decline of power for Alibaba and the rest of the Chinese megatech companies like tencent and baidu. The chinese gover

Actually no, this marks the beginning the decline of power for Alibaba and the rest of the Chinese megatech companies like tencent and baidu. The chinese government goal for the next 5-10 years is stability, control and state companies, not innovation nor private sector growth. They fear the end of CCP. That's why the recently 5 year plan stresses stability, and doesn't set a growth goal That's why they cracked down on Hong Kong and basically gave up a conduit of western capital/talents as well as letting Hong Kong citizen's wealth escape abroad. That's why they are becoming alarmingly nationalistic and lashes out on US/EU politicians and encourages its citizens to boycott foreign brands like H&M. That's why they are building artificial islands in the south asia sea despite Vietnam/Phillipine's angry protests, to shore up their maritime power.

justicezyx 5y ago
How can small corps survive when Alibaba and Tencent bullying people around? Why stability is conflicting with innovation? Are you saying that somehow the innovation has to be destabilizing the society? That's never the case in the human history. Any innovation make human more united and more understand and easier get across each other.
- kolbe 5y ago
  This is not true. Plenty of innovations have destabilized the world. Look at all of WW1’s weaponry. Look at Facebook allowing mass brainwashing to rip the United States apart. But more to the point, even if it were true, the CCP isn’t interested in the stability of humanity. They’re interested in the stability of their own power.
  - justicezyx 5y ago
    Overall FB had helped the world move to more open and more understanding. Citing weaponry is misleading, we are not talking about military here. Alibaba and Tencent do into stifle military innovation.
    - Badfood 5y ago
      Whoa. You are from planet earth, right? If you are a FB employee or shareholder you should probably disclose that if you're going to make such a comment
      - ksec 5y ago
        FB is only hated in US ( and in UK ). Especially in the Tech sector and media. Most part of planet earth actually enjoys Facebook. ( Despite all of its flaws ) It is a contrarian view, but an objective truth. Especially with Small Business. So Mark Zuckerberg do have a point with its ads, although I think he should have kept his mouth shut during that time when he is clearing in the wrong doing in tracking.
        Tepix 5y ago
        Nope, we also hate FB over here in Germany.
        Badfood 5y ago
        I live in NZ, previously in Italy and Mexico. My comments weren't related to the US or UK
        seanmcdirmid 5y ago
        Oddly enough, many people in Cambodia and Laos (Chinese next door neighbors) think the internet is synonymous with Facebook and YouTube.
        ksec 5y ago
        Yes I should have given more context. In English speaking sphere you see attack on Facebook. While places in SEA and many parts of the world enjoy what it brings to them. And of course there are many using Facebook without complaining in "Western World".( Sorry for the lack of better Term, NZ and AUS aren't in the west and most EUR aren't really English Speaking but you get the idea ) So it is not all bad and all evil. While I agree with Facebook "deepens" the division between US or in general any politics, I dont believe it is the cause of division. I am still unsure what causes the divide in the first place.
- pjc50 5y ago
  It is always the case that any kind of change or growth is destabilizing. The most stable state is not to grow, after all. Usually the benefits outweigh the disadvantages, but there's no point pretending that there are never any individuals or groups who lose out as a result of an innovation.
  - justicezyx 5y ago
    > The most stable state is not to grow, after all. Well, the assumption has to be that there were no external impact to that system, which was never the case. A strong stable and healthy mainstream, plus moderate amount of innovation seem the most stable, under normal circumstances, to me.
kolbe 5y ago
I think it’s more likely the companies will thrive, but that the CCP will keep them on a tight leash. Jack Ma will be marginalized and replaced with a CCP insider. The company will continue to be a monopoly with de facto support from the CCP. I think the only reason they’re even in the current predicament is that Ma publicly insulted other well-connected financial firms, and Xi started to believe that Ma was stepping out of line, and wanted to make an example of him. Alibaba itself is too important to China, but Ma is mostly expendable.
- jpgvm 5y ago
  Jack Ma had already stepped away from Alibaba. Which is also why the crackdown isn't that harsh on Alibaba itself but is rather focused on ANT which Ma is much more actively involved with. Additionally ANT is the point of contention as the CCP finds anything that muddles with credit or deposits to drastically undermine the iron fist on monetary policy. I agree in broad strokes that tech firms will thrive now. This fine shows both the intent and the level of severity of policy now which were both previously unknowns. Market hates unknowns and often very pessimistically prices in risk.
- ksec 5y ago
  Just to expand on this a bit. >Jack Ma will be marginalized and replaced with a CCP insider. Jack Ma is an CCP insider. I think it would be better described as "trusted" CCP insider. Alibaba ( And Tencent ) already has those CCP insider within the company. ANT less so before, but will now surely get it if that is not already the case.
- mahkeiro 5y ago
  Jack Ma retired completely from Alibaba in 2018....
yeetman21 5y ago
building artificial islands (creating conflict) and having a goal of stability (not conflict) are opposites. you are contradicting yourself
- SXX 5y ago
  Actually it's not. For instance cleptocracy of Russia was ever trying to sell "stability" to the masses while creating conflicts in foreign policy. Apparently it's essier to sell this BS of being protectors of stability by creating image that world is full of enemies whose only goal is to destoy your homeland. CCP regime is different, but I guess it's the same playbook. 1984 in action.

justicezyx 5y ago

How can small corps survive when Alibaba and Tencent bullying people around? Why stability is conflicting with innovation? Are you saying that somehow the innovation has to be destabilizing the society? That's never the case in the human history. Any innovation make human more united and more understand and easier get across each other.

kolbe 5y ago
This is not true. Plenty of innovations have destabilized the world. Look at all of WW1’s weaponry. Look at Facebook allowing mass brainwashing to rip the United States apart. But more to the point, even if it were true, the CCP isn’t interested in the stability of humanity. They’re interested in the stability of their own power.
- justicezyx 5y ago
  Overall FB had helped the world move to more open and more understanding. Citing weaponry is misleading, we are not talking about military here. Alibaba and Tencent do into stifle military innovation.
  - Badfood 5y ago
    Whoa. You are from planet earth, right? If you are a FB employee or shareholder you should probably disclose that if you're going to make such a comment
    - ksec 5y ago
      FB is only hated in US ( and in UK ). Especially in the Tech sector and media. Most part of planet earth actually enjoys Facebook. ( Despite all of its flaws ) It is a contrarian view, but an objective truth. Especially with Small Business. So Mark Zuckerberg do have a point with its ads, although I think he should have kept his mouth shut during that time when he is clearing in the wrong doing in tracking.
      - Tepix 5y ago
        Nope, we also hate FB over here in Germany.
      - Badfood 5y ago
        I live in NZ, previously in Italy and Mexico. My comments weren't related to the US or UK
      - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
        Oddly enough, many people in Cambodia and Laos (Chinese next door neighbors) think the internet is synonymous with Facebook and YouTube.
        ksec 5y ago
        Yes I should have given more context. In English speaking sphere you see attack on Facebook. While places in SEA and many parts of the world enjoy what it brings to them. And of course there are many using Facebook without complaining in "Western World".( Sorry for the lack of better Term, NZ and AUS aren't in the west and most EUR aren't really English Speaking but you get the idea ) So it is not all bad and all evil. While I agree with Facebook "deepens" the division between US or in general any politics, I dont believe it is the cause of division. I am still unsure what causes the divide in the first place.
pjc50 5y ago
It is always the case that any kind of change or growth is destabilizing. The most stable state is not to grow, after all. Usually the benefits outweigh the disadvantages, but there's no point pretending that there are never any individuals or groups who lose out as a result of an innovation.
- justicezyx 5y ago
  > The most stable state is not to grow, after all. Well, the assumption has to be that there were no external impact to that system, which was never the case. A strong stable and healthy mainstream, plus moderate amount of innovation seem the most stable, under normal circumstances, to me.

kolbe 5y ago

I think it’s more likely the companies will thrive, but that the CCP will keep them on a tight leash. Jack Ma will be marginalized and replaced with a CCP insider. The company will continue to be a monopoly with de facto support from the CCP. I think the only reason they’re even in the current predicament is that Ma publicly insulted other well-connected financial firms, and Xi started to believe that Ma was stepping out of line, and wanted to make an example of him. Alibaba itself is too important to China, but Ma is mostly expendable.

jpgvm 5y ago
Jack Ma had already stepped away from Alibaba. Which is also why the crackdown isn't that harsh on Alibaba itself but is rather focused on ANT which Ma is much more actively involved with. Additionally ANT is the point of contention as the CCP finds anything that muddles with credit or deposits to drastically undermine the iron fist on monetary policy. I agree in broad strokes that tech firms will thrive now. This fine shows both the intent and the level of severity of policy now which were both previously unknowns. Market hates unknowns and often very pessimistically prices in risk.
ksec 5y ago
Just to expand on this a bit. >Jack Ma will be marginalized and replaced with a CCP insider. Jack Ma is an CCP insider. I think it would be better described as "trusted" CCP insider. Alibaba ( And Tencent ) already has those CCP insider within the company. ANT less so before, but will now surely get it if that is not already the case.
mahkeiro 5y ago
Jack Ma retired completely from Alibaba in 2018....

yeetman21 5y ago

building artificial islands (creating conflict) and having a goal of stability (not conflict) are opposites. you are contradicting yourself

SXX 5y ago
Actually it's not. For instance cleptocracy of Russia was ever trying to sell "stability" to the masses while creating conflicts in foreign policy. Apparently it's essier to sell this BS of being protectors of stability by creating image that world is full of enemies whose only goal is to destoy your homeland. CCP regime is different, but I guess it's the same playbook. 1984 in action.