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Are you familiar with fuel gases? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_manufactured_fuel_gases https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_manufactured_fuel_g.

by Hypx 5y ago

Are you familiar with fuel gases? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_manufactured_fuel_gases https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_manufactured_fuel_g... Burning hydrogen gas (blended with other gases) for heat or power has been around for a long time. > I'm not sure why you're trying to deny the existence of chemical facts You're projecting here.

Manfredo_1 5y ago
That link you provided doesn't encompass gas turbines. Gas turbines capable of burning hydrogen do exist, but only at smaller concentrations, 70% methane and 30% hydrogen or less.
- Hypx 5y ago
  In addition to what I said in the other post regarding gas turbines, you also don't need a gas turbine to generate power. As long as you can boil water the rest follows logically. Honestly, you should learn some thermodynamics and chemistry before accusing others of being ignorant.
  - Manfredo_1 5y ago
    Right, but then we're not talking about combined-cycle gas turbines to convert hydrogen back into electricity. If we're going to boil water than that's much less efficient than the ~66% efficiency we get out of combined cycle gas turbines. Also, in case you weren't aware a combined cycle turbine also involves boiling water and spinning a turbine. The reason why they're so efficient is because energy is extracted both from the gas turbine (basically a jet engine) and a steam turbine driven by the heat from the exhaust from the gas turbine. >Honestly, you should learn some thermodynamics and chemistry before accusing others of being ignorant. Hydrogen embrittlement is a real thing, don't just go hand-waving it away: https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/03/f12/hpwgw_embrittlementsteels_sofronis.pdf https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/03/f12/hpwgw_em... What about thermodynamics am I missing?
    - Hypx 5y ago
      So now you're arguing that anything less than ~60% efficiency is unacceptable? Even for emergency backup or long-term power storage reasons? You're at multiple layers of denial at this point. It's time to admit you were wrong.
      - Manfredo_1 5y ago
        Sure, we could burn hydrogen and drive a boiler like a coal plant. But that's not where this comment thread started. > Those gas turbines you're referring to can simply be modified natural gas gas turbines Sure, if you just want to run them for a short period of time and generate a lot more wear. If these turbines are so simple to modify, why does GE say that it won't be until 2045 that their turbines will be able to run 100% hydrogen gas?
        Hypx 5y ago
        Then repurpose old coal plants for the same reason. None of this needs to be hard. This whole debate started when you were caught making ignorant statements regarding basic chemistry and thermodynamics. You're not going to win by just doubling on everything or moving goalposts. It's past time to admit you were wrong.
        Manfredo_1 5y ago
        If we aren't using combined cycle gas turbines round-trip efficiency of hydrogen storage is seriously reduced. I'm not moving any goalpost. This is your comment when you claimed that gas turbines could be repurposed to burn hydrogen: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26599162 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26599162 > Those gas turbines you're referring to can simply be modified natural gas gas turbines. > It's past time to admit you were wrong. Follow your own advice. You can't just feed a gas turbine hydrogen and run it as normal. Existing gas turbine manufacturers don't plant to offer 100% hydrogen gas turbines for decades.
        5y ago

by Hypx 5y ago

Manfredo_1 5y ago

That link you provided doesn't encompass gas turbines. Gas turbines capable of burning hydrogen do exist, but only at smaller concentrations, 70% methane and 30% hydrogen or less.

Hypx 5y ago
In addition to what I said in the other post regarding gas turbines, you also don't need a gas turbine to generate power. As long as you can boil water the rest follows logically. Honestly, you should learn some thermodynamics and chemistry before accusing others of being ignorant.
- Manfredo_1 5y ago
  Right, but then we're not talking about combined-cycle gas turbines to convert hydrogen back into electricity. If we're going to boil water than that's much less efficient than the ~66% efficiency we get out of combined cycle gas turbines. Also, in case you weren't aware a combined cycle turbine also involves boiling water and spinning a turbine. The reason why they're so efficient is because energy is extracted both from the gas turbine (basically a jet engine) and a steam turbine driven by the heat from the exhaust from the gas turbine. >Honestly, you should learn some thermodynamics and chemistry before accusing others of being ignorant. Hydrogen embrittlement is a real thing, don't just go hand-waving it away: https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/03/f12/hpwgw_embrittlementsteels_sofronis.pdf https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/03/f12/hpwgw_em... What about thermodynamics am I missing?
  - Hypx 5y ago
    So now you're arguing that anything less than ~60% efficiency is unacceptable? Even for emergency backup or long-term power storage reasons? You're at multiple layers of denial at this point. It's time to admit you were wrong.
    - Manfredo_1 5y ago
      Sure, we could burn hydrogen and drive a boiler like a coal plant. But that's not where this comment thread started. > Those gas turbines you're referring to can simply be modified natural gas gas turbines Sure, if you just want to run them for a short period of time and generate a lot more wear. If these turbines are so simple to modify, why does GE say that it won't be until 2045 that their turbines will be able to run 100% hydrogen gas?
      - Hypx 5y ago
        Then repurpose old coal plants for the same reason. None of this needs to be hard. This whole debate started when you were caught making ignorant statements regarding basic chemistry and thermodynamics. You're not going to win by just doubling on everything or moving goalposts. It's past time to admit you were wrong.
        Manfredo_1 5y ago
        If we aren't using combined cycle gas turbines round-trip efficiency of hydrogen storage is seriously reduced. I'm not moving any goalpost. This is your comment when you claimed that gas turbines could be repurposed to burn hydrogen: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26599162 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26599162 > Those gas turbines you're referring to can simply be modified natural gas gas turbines. > It's past time to admit you were wrong. Follow your own advice. You can't just feed a gas turbine hydrogen and run it as normal. Existing gas turbine manufacturers don't plant to offer 100% hydrogen gas turbines for decades.
        5y ago