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Well if you listen to some Tesla fanatics including boss man Elon himself, traditional car companies carry too much baggage from their ICE platforms to transiti

Well if you listen to some Tesla fanatics including boss man Elon himself, traditional car companies carry too much baggage from their ICE platforms to transition to EVs successfully, so all this “experience” they have is a net drag. Meanwhile outside the Tesla/Musk bubble, traditional car companies do not have QC issues like Tesla’s and are even outselling Tesla in major EV markets like Europe. At least Musk is finally admitting to the QC issues.

Schiendelman 6y ago
I don't think it's useful to say traditional car companies are outselling Tesla in Europe; they're selling a differently positioned vehicle. It's like Android to Apple - $200 Android phones aren't "outselling" $1000 Apple phones in a lower income market.
Isinlor 6y ago
Tesla is competing on European market with 10% tariffs. Wait for cars made in Giga Berlin that will be exempted from tariffs.
- rad_gruchalski 6y ago
  Tariffs have nothing to do with quality.
  - Isinlor 6y ago
    "and are even outselling Tesla in major EV markets like Europe." They are because among other things Tesla has 10% tariffs.
    - rad_gruchalski 6y ago
      I’m looking forward to European clients storming Tesla for German manufactured Teslas.
- africanboy 6y ago
  Tesla is not the only EV car on the market anymore. The top selling EV in Europe in 2020 was the Renault Zoe, Volkswagen is catching up fast (they sold 56k ID 3 despite only going on sale in the second half of last year VS 85k Model 3 over 12 months), Tesla model 3 was second, but numbers are dropping. If we are talking about quality, I think the new BMW and Mercedes will take the lead in the segment Tesla is being marketed right now. Tesla numbers are good thanks to Norway buying a lot of them.
  - Isinlor 6y ago
    Starting price of Renault ZOE is 30 490 euro vs. Tesla Model 3 is 48 000 euro. The fact that Model 3 is second only to a car almost half the price is kind of crazy. And Tesla will probably drop this price by some 5000 euro as soon as they will start production at Giga Berlin. Also, this decade will not be about EV vs. ICE. It will be about self-driving. My guess is that Tesla will have robotaxis driving all around the world somewhere after 2025, but before 2030. Traditional car companies have no expertise in software as they themselves admit.
    - africanboy 6y ago
      Zoe starts at € 38.900 in Italy the 77KWh is € 48.900 You are probably not accounting for VAT AFAIK self driving as in unattended driving is not big in Europe, given that most of the driving happens in crowded cities and country roads. Self driving is welcome on highways, but almost any modern car have some kind of auto pilot system that works well enough. > Traditional car companies have no expertise in software as they themselves admit. That's simply not true anymore. All manufacturers are working on it, Honda will release a level 3 at the end of March this year, Tesla is a level 2 (if I am not wrong) p.s. I am from Italy
      - Isinlor 6y ago
        Dutch website is claiming that Renault Zoe R110 Life costs 33 590 [0]. Seems like I've missed 3500 subsidy from Dutch government. Nobody is able to do true self driving like a taxi in city today. But it will be possible in this decade (I have 95% confidence) and it will be happening in Europe as well. Whoever achieves true, reliable, widely deployed self-driving first will crash competition. Car ownership will effectively disappear in the decade after that i.e. 2030 and later. [0] https://www.renault.nl/elektrische-autos/zoe.html https://www.renault.nl/elektrische-autos/zoe.html
nickik 6y ago
Man people look at one statistic from Norway and simply make assumptions. Tesla has 23% of the global BEV market, that is the same market share as 2019. And many of those other cars are small low range city cars. So in terms of BEV revenue Tesla is much more then 23%. Tesla has focused on the US and China first. While VW and others had to focus on Europe first. To use that fact and argue 'even outselling Tesla in major EV markets' is just disingenuous. Next, it simply not true that traditional car companies don't have QC issues. If you look at analysis you will see that other expensive cars are often not so much better then Tesla. In terms of safety, battery and drivetrain, we have seen traditional car companies have lots of issues. Also, Tesla is not using market share in Europe because of Quality issues. That is simply what Tesla hater want to believe because it fit the narrative.

Schiendelman 6y ago

I don't think it's useful to say traditional car companies are outselling Tesla in Europe; they're selling a differently positioned vehicle. It's like Android to Apple - $200 Android phones aren't "outselling" $1000 Apple phones in a lower income market.

Isinlor 6y ago

Tesla is competing on European market with 10% tariffs. Wait for cars made in Giga Berlin that will be exempted from tariffs.

rad_gruchalski 6y ago
Tariffs have nothing to do with quality.
- Isinlor 6y ago
  "and are even outselling Tesla in major EV markets like Europe." They are because among other things Tesla has 10% tariffs.
  - rad_gruchalski 6y ago
    I’m looking forward to European clients storming Tesla for German manufactured Teslas.
africanboy 6y ago
Tesla is not the only EV car on the market anymore. The top selling EV in Europe in 2020 was the Renault Zoe, Volkswagen is catching up fast (they sold 56k ID 3 despite only going on sale in the second half of last year VS 85k Model 3 over 12 months), Tesla model 3 was second, but numbers are dropping. If we are talking about quality, I think the new BMW and Mercedes will take the lead in the segment Tesla is being marketed right now. Tesla numbers are good thanks to Norway buying a lot of them.
- Isinlor 6y ago
  Starting price of Renault ZOE is 30 490 euro vs. Tesla Model 3 is 48 000 euro. The fact that Model 3 is second only to a car almost half the price is kind of crazy. And Tesla will probably drop this price by some 5000 euro as soon as they will start production at Giga Berlin. Also, this decade will not be about EV vs. ICE. It will be about self-driving. My guess is that Tesla will have robotaxis driving all around the world somewhere after 2025, but before 2030. Traditional car companies have no expertise in software as they themselves admit.
  - africanboy 6y ago
    Zoe starts at € 38.900 in Italy the 77KWh is € 48.900 You are probably not accounting for VAT AFAIK self driving as in unattended driving is not big in Europe, given that most of the driving happens in crowded cities and country roads. Self driving is welcome on highways, but almost any modern car have some kind of auto pilot system that works well enough. > Traditional car companies have no expertise in software as they themselves admit. That's simply not true anymore. All manufacturers are working on it, Honda will release a level 3 at the end of March this year, Tesla is a level 2 (if I am not wrong) p.s. I am from Italy
    - Isinlor 6y ago
      Dutch website is claiming that Renault Zoe R110 Life costs 33 590 [0]. Seems like I've missed 3500 subsidy from Dutch government. Nobody is able to do true self driving like a taxi in city today. But it will be possible in this decade (I have 95% confidence) and it will be happening in Europe as well. Whoever achieves true, reliable, widely deployed self-driving first will crash competition. Car ownership will effectively disappear in the decade after that i.e. 2030 and later. [0] https://www.renault.nl/elektrische-autos/zoe.html https://www.renault.nl/elektrische-autos/zoe.html

nickik 6y ago

Man people look at one statistic from Norway and simply make assumptions. Tesla has 23% of the global BEV market, that is the same market share as 2019. And many of those other cars are small low range city cars. So in terms of BEV revenue Tesla is much more then 23%. Tesla has focused on the US and China first. While VW and others had to focus on Europe first. To use that fact and argue 'even outselling Tesla in major EV markets' is just disingenuous. Next, it simply not true that traditional car companies don't have QC issues. If you look at analysis you will see that other expensive cars are often not so much better then Tesla. In terms of safety, battery and drivetrain, we have seen traditional car companies have lots of issues. Also, Tesla is not using market share in Europe because of Quality issues. That is simply what Tesla hater want to believe because it fit the narrative.