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Well they left all the juicy parts out Context: https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/15/22232766/github-employees-protest-jewish-employee-firing-warn-nazi https://w

Well they left all the juicy parts out Context: https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/15/22232766/github-employees-protest-jewish-employee-firing-warn-nazi https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/15/22232766/github-employees... I can’t believe people talk like this on a work public channel.

aerovistae 6y ago
Thanks for the link! And yeah agreed.
zaksoup 6y ago
I want to say: I don't talk as casually as this in a work channel, though I do sometimes discuss politics and current events. That's not because I don't think it's professional, but rather because I'm jewish and what happened to this employee feels like a very present threat. It is a well-documented fact that neo-nazi hate groups were a significant presence in the riot and preceding "protest" at the capital. Stating that fact ultimately lead to a nazi-apologist coworker denying it, and then the jewish employee being fired.
- read_if_gay_ 6y ago
  > Stating that fact ultimately lead to a nazi-apologist coworker denying it Where?
  - tyrust 6y ago
    From the article: >The current conflict began the day of the riots in Washington, DC when a Jewish employee told co-workers: “stay safe homies, nazis are about.” Some colleagues took offense to the language, although neo-Nazi organizations were, in fact, present at the riots. One engineer responded: “This is untasteful conduct for workplace [in my opinion], people have the right to protest period.” Ctrl-F for that to see the screenshot with the full context.
    - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
      How is that denying there are Nazis?
      - geofft 6y ago
        If you read the full sentence in the article, you will note that it continues by saying that the label is "slandering." Something has to be untrue for it to be slander. Therefore, by saying that labeling people in the crowd as Nazis is slander, it denies that there were Nazis in the crowd.
        Griffinsauce 6y ago
        That employee is taking the position that "there are" is equal to "all those people are", the same flawed logic is being used as a premise by a lot of commenters here. It's so blatently wrong that it's hard to assume good faith.
        read_if_gay_ 6y ago
        Now that you pointed it out I see what you mean, but I wouldn’t call it blatantly wrong. To me the statement honestly read like it’s lumping all protesters together, or at least it’s certainly not making an obvious attempt to differentiate.
        pritambaral 6y ago
        > ... or at least it’s certainly not making an obvious attempt to differentiate. It does not need to. Yelling "Fire!" in a cinema hall does not need to be accompanied by precise instructions as to where said fire is burning. It's a warning, not a debate.
        readthenotes1 6y ago
        Something has to be defamatory and expressed orally for it to be slander. Apparently, all the labeling should have been around libel. I am having trouble adjusting to a reality in which I am the first to express this quibble. https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/libel-vs-slander-different-types-defamation.html https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/libel-vs-slander-dif...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- StanislavPetrov 6y ago
  >It is a well-documented fact that neo-nazi hate groups were a significant presence in the riot and preceding "protest" at the capital. Given the fact that some members of the mob were waving Israeli flags, your assertion is extremely dubious. The fact is that the mob was comprised of lunatics, fringe characters and contingents of all kinds, which has led to those with agendas to cherry pick from this hodgepodge to spin their own narratives. https://www.middleeasteye.net/sites/default/files/2021-01/Israeli%20flag%20flies%20alongside%20QAnon%20flag%20at%20Trump%20rally%20near%20US%20Capitol%20-%20Ali%20Harb.jpg https://www.middleeasteye.net/sites/default/files/2021-01/Is...
  - jakelazaroff 6y ago
    Many white supremacists and Nazis support the state of Israel. There are a lot of reasons, but the simplest is that they want Jews to migrate there so they can create an ethnostate here.
raverbashing 6y ago
> The employee was chastised for using divisive language, according to news first reported by Business Insider. For calling, erm, Nazis Nazis? (and yes, given the photos of the event that monicker can be applied to some people present there) No wonder the head of HR quit, this is such top level corporate PR BS that it's hard to justify.
- baskire 6y ago
  If employee lives in California they could also sue Github’s HR and likely win “”” California Labor Code section 1102 provides "[n]o employer shall coerce or influence or attempt to coerce or influence his employees through or by means of threat of discharge or loss of employment... “””
btown 6y ago
> I can't believe people talk like this on a work public channel. Not sure if you're referring to the instance of the egregious anti-Semitic joke (CW for that link, btw), or to the bulk of the communications, but for any who feel the latter, that any conversation involving Nazism is improper, I'd consider a counterpoint: We're in an industry where it's very easy for our work to be used for horrible things, where indeed there are historical examples of technology being used to accelerate the operations of genocide, and it's not only appropriate but essential that the employees of companies be allowed to call out fascism, and express their fear and dismay of Nazis, to colleagues whenever they see it, regardless of whether it is immediately linked to a product initiative. The comment that states "you dont see 'commie' being dropped in the workplace nor should 'nazi,' it's just slandering" is the false equivalency of the century, and if we can't distinguish between words that over-simplify a political ideology, vs. words that concisely warn colleagues that something is going beyond political ideology and towards a pattern of racially-motivated behavior that places people in grave danger, we haven't learned our lessons from history.
- laresistance 6y ago
  > vs. words that concisely warn colleagues that something is going beyond political ideology and towards a pattern of racially-motivated behavior that places people in grave danger, we haven't learned our lessons from history. Don't the more radical leftist circles fit exactly this description, except that they just paint a different racial group as the enemy?
  - jfrunyon 6y ago
    What "racial group" do "radical leftist circles" paint as the enemy, pray tell? And how does one bad thing justify another bad thing?
    - laresistance 6y ago
      Well I saw plenty of opinions of radical left wing people calling for pretty atrocious things against "CIS white males". I don't believe violence should be justified, one way or another.
biermic 6y ago
Independent from the events: The way Github employees communicate with each other makes me kind of uncomfortable. In the companies I've worked here in Europe, such discussions just would not happen in a cooperate chat room.
- odiroot 6y ago
  Yes, we don't take calling anyone "Nazi" lightly. Well, at least level-headed people don't. It's disrespectful to the people who were imprisoned, tortured and exterminated by the real Nazis.
  - jakelazaroff 6y ago
    As a member of the group of people who were imprisoned, tortured and exterminated by the “real” Nazis, I’d much rather be warned that their successors were involved in an ongoing terrorist attack in the immediate vicinity than tiptoe around the issue to avoid making conservatives uncomfortable.
    - pothos 6y ago
      All over social media (https://twitter.com/jlazaroff https://twitter.com/jlazaroff) and on this very website, you rail against white people, you rail against white people having too much wealth, you rail against white people having too much power, and you rail against white people having too much speech. Yet consistently, you become furious whenever anyone makes a similar assertion about Jewish people. Why should non-Jewish people continue to tolerate your tribal behavior? You're basically a walking, talking Nazi caricature of a subversive Jew. You can do better.
    - dustinmoris 6y ago
      > avoid making conservatives uncomfortable Hacker News has a huge global audience. Conservatism means something very different in all parts of the world. I assume you mean Republicans in America? Just to give you context, here in Europe we would consider the Democrats in the US a right conservative party and Republicans a far right party. Conservatives in Europe would be considered far left in the US, because in Europe even the most conservative person would still be in favour or public healthcare, pro gun laws and support many things like rent control or minimum wage. If you try to associate conservatism with American far right groups it only shows your own narrow minded "conservative" understanding of the world.
briefcomment 6y ago
So unprofessional.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
ergocoder 6y ago
Github seems like a toxic place to work. "100% of Nazis were there" -- it's likely false. How do you even know 100% of Nazis were there? I work in tech and have been trained to use appropriate languages and avoid generalization. I don't doubt there are people who support nazis there. But how do you know all of them support nazis? This person who said "nazis are about" is absolutely being inappropriate. Is it a fireable offense? I have no idea. If someone said "looters are about" during BLM, they would be canceled so hard. (yes, many BLMs support looting, well, it's just property not people. Some even supports looting the shops who support BLM because protest must cause inconvenience! the worst strategy I've ever heard of) At the current state, it would be better to forbid talking about politics at work because one side is given so much free pass to exaggerate and generalize.
- sjs382 6y ago
  > "100% of Nazis were there" -- it's likely false. How do you even know 100% of Nazis were there? This is misquoted. There is no "of" in the original chat. "100% Nazis were there" translates to something akin to "truth: Nazis were there."
  - ergocoder 6y ago
    Thank you for correcting me. I can drop that point (unfortunately, I can't edit/delete.) I hope my point still stands though. "Nazis are about" is an inappropriate comment during this political climate. It would be similar to saying "looters are about" during the BLM movement.
    - YeBanKo 6y ago
      Why is it an inappropriate comment? It is factual. There are photos showing people that have Nazi symbols. One example is this guy in the “Camp Auschwitz” hoodie [1]. He also was present in a photo from the inside of Capitol, means he actively participated. There are more examples. I had such a similar conversation with coworkers one time during lunch. I said that I had just seen a Nazi on a bike next to the office. One of my coworkers tried to argue, that not every biker was a Nazi and maybe I had jumped to conclusion too soon. Which of course is true, not every biker is a Nazi, but the one I’d seen had had a swastika and SS bolts tattooed on his shoulder. And yes, there were looters during BML protests. [1] https://nypost.com/2021/01/06/neo-nazis-among-protesters-who-stormed-us-capitol/ https://nypost.com/2021/01/06/neo-nazis-among-protesters-who...

aerovistae 6y ago

Thanks for the link! And yeah agreed.

zaksoup 6y ago

I want to say: I don't talk as casually as this in a work channel, though I do sometimes discuss politics and current events. That's not because I don't think it's professional, but rather because I'm jewish and what happened to this employee feels like a very present threat. It is a well-documented fact that neo-nazi hate groups were a significant presence in the riot and preceding "protest" at the capital. Stating that fact ultimately lead to a nazi-apologist coworker denying it, and then the jewish employee being fired.

read_if_gay_ 6y ago
> Stating that fact ultimately lead to a nazi-apologist coworker denying it Where?
- tyrust 6y ago
  From the article: >The current conflict began the day of the riots in Washington, DC when a Jewish employee told co-workers: “stay safe homies, nazis are about.” Some colleagues took offense to the language, although neo-Nazi organizations were, in fact, present at the riots. One engineer responded: “This is untasteful conduct for workplace [in my opinion], people have the right to protest period.” Ctrl-F for that to see the screenshot with the full context.
  - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
    How is that denying there are Nazis?
    - geofft 6y ago
      If you read the full sentence in the article, you will note that it continues by saying that the label is "slandering." Something has to be untrue for it to be slander. Therefore, by saying that labeling people in the crowd as Nazis is slander, it denies that there were Nazis in the crowd.
      - Griffinsauce 6y ago
        That employee is taking the position that "there are" is equal to "all those people are", the same flawed logic is being used as a premise by a lot of commenters here. It's so blatently wrong that it's hard to assume good faith.
        read_if_gay_ 6y ago
        Now that you pointed it out I see what you mean, but I wouldn’t call it blatantly wrong. To me the statement honestly read like it’s lumping all protesters together, or at least it’s certainly not making an obvious attempt to differentiate.
        pritambaral 6y ago
        > ... or at least it’s certainly not making an obvious attempt to differentiate. It does not need to. Yelling "Fire!" in a cinema hall does not need to be accompanied by precise instructions as to where said fire is burning. It's a warning, not a debate.
      - readthenotes1 6y ago
        Something has to be defamatory and expressed orally for it to be slander. Apparently, all the labeling should have been around libel. I am having trouble adjusting to a reality in which I am the first to express this quibble. https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/libel-vs-slander-different-types-defamation.html https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/libel-vs-slander-dif...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
StanislavPetrov 6y ago
>It is a well-documented fact that neo-nazi hate groups were a significant presence in the riot and preceding "protest" at the capital. Given the fact that some members of the mob were waving Israeli flags, your assertion is extremely dubious. The fact is that the mob was comprised of lunatics, fringe characters and contingents of all kinds, which has led to those with agendas to cherry pick from this hodgepodge to spin their own narratives. https://www.middleeasteye.net/sites/default/files/2021-01/Israeli%20flag%20flies%20alongside%20QAnon%20flag%20at%20Trump%20rally%20near%20US%20Capitol%20-%20Ali%20Harb.jpg https://www.middleeasteye.net/sites/default/files/2021-01/Is...
- jakelazaroff 6y ago
  Many white supremacists and Nazis support the state of Israel. There are a lot of reasons, but the simplest is that they want Jews to migrate there so they can create an ethnostate here.

raverbashing 6y ago

> The employee was chastised for using divisive language, according to news first reported by Business Insider. For calling, erm, Nazis Nazis? (and yes, given the photos of the event that monicker can be applied to some people present there) No wonder the head of HR quit, this is such top level corporate PR BS that it's hard to justify.

baskire 6y ago
If employee lives in California they could also sue Github’s HR and likely win “”” California Labor Code section 1102 provides "[n]o employer shall coerce or influence or attempt to coerce or influence his employees through or by means of threat of discharge or loss of employment... “””

btown 6y ago

> I can't believe people talk like this on a work public channel. Not sure if you're referring to the instance of the egregious anti-Semitic joke (CW for that link, btw), or to the bulk of the communications, but for any who feel the latter, that any conversation involving Nazism is improper, I'd consider a counterpoint: We're in an industry where it's very easy for our work to be used for horrible things, where indeed there are historical examples of technology being used to accelerate the operations of genocide, and it's not only appropriate but essential that the employees of companies be allowed to call out fascism, and express their fear and dismay of Nazis, to colleagues whenever they see it, regardless of whether it is immediately linked to a product initiative. The comment that states "you dont see 'commie' being dropped in the workplace nor should 'nazi,' it's just slandering" is the false equivalency of the century, and if we can't distinguish between words that over-simplify a political ideology, vs. words that concisely warn colleagues that something is going beyond political ideology and towards a pattern of racially-motivated behavior that places people in grave danger, we haven't learned our lessons from history.

laresistance 6y ago
> vs. words that concisely warn colleagues that something is going beyond political ideology and towards a pattern of racially-motivated behavior that places people in grave danger, we haven't learned our lessons from history. Don't the more radical leftist circles fit exactly this description, except that they just paint a different racial group as the enemy?
- jfrunyon 6y ago
  What "racial group" do "radical leftist circles" paint as the enemy, pray tell? And how does one bad thing justify another bad thing?
  - laresistance 6y ago
    Well I saw plenty of opinions of radical left wing people calling for pretty atrocious things against "CIS white males". I don't believe violence should be justified, one way or another.

biermic 6y ago

Independent from the events: The way Github employees communicate with each other makes me kind of uncomfortable. In the companies I've worked here in Europe, such discussions just would not happen in a cooperate chat room.

odiroot 6y ago
Yes, we don't take calling anyone "Nazi" lightly. Well, at least level-headed people don't. It's disrespectful to the people who were imprisoned, tortured and exterminated by the real Nazis.
- jakelazaroff 6y ago
  As a member of the group of people who were imprisoned, tortured and exterminated by the “real” Nazis, I’d much rather be warned that their successors were involved in an ongoing terrorist attack in the immediate vicinity than tiptoe around the issue to avoid making conservatives uncomfortable.
  - pothos 6y ago
    All over social media (https://twitter.com/jlazaroff https://twitter.com/jlazaroff) and on this very website, you rail against white people, you rail against white people having too much wealth, you rail against white people having too much power, and you rail against white people having too much speech. Yet consistently, you become furious whenever anyone makes a similar assertion about Jewish people. Why should non-Jewish people continue to tolerate your tribal behavior? You're basically a walking, talking Nazi caricature of a subversive Jew. You can do better.
  - dustinmoris 6y ago
    > avoid making conservatives uncomfortable Hacker News has a huge global audience. Conservatism means something very different in all parts of the world. I assume you mean Republicans in America? Just to give you context, here in Europe we would consider the Democrats in the US a right conservative party and Republicans a far right party. Conservatives in Europe would be considered far left in the US, because in Europe even the most conservative person would still be in favour or public healthcare, pro gun laws and support many things like rent control or minimum wage. If you try to associate conservatism with American far right groups it only shows your own narrow minded "conservative" understanding of the world.

briefcomment 6y ago

So unprofessional.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

ergocoder 6y ago

Github seems like a toxic place to work. "100% of Nazis were there" -- it's likely false. How do you even know 100% of Nazis were there? I work in tech and have been trained to use appropriate languages and avoid generalization. I don't doubt there are people who support nazis there. But how do you know all of them support nazis? This person who said "nazis are about" is absolutely being inappropriate. Is it a fireable offense? I have no idea. If someone said "looters are about" during BLM, they would be canceled so hard. (yes, many BLMs support looting, well, it's just property not people. Some even supports looting the shops who support BLM because protest must cause inconvenience! the worst strategy I've ever heard of) At the current state, it would be better to forbid talking about politics at work because one side is given so much free pass to exaggerate and generalize.

sjs382 6y ago
> "100% of Nazis were there" -- it's likely false. How do you even know 100% of Nazis were there? This is misquoted. There is no "of" in the original chat. "100% Nazis were there" translates to something akin to "truth: Nazis were there."
- ergocoder 6y ago
  Thank you for correcting me. I can drop that point (unfortunately, I can't edit/delete.) I hope my point still stands though. "Nazis are about" is an inappropriate comment during this political climate. It would be similar to saying "looters are about" during the BLM movement.
  - YeBanKo 6y ago
    Why is it an inappropriate comment? It is factual. There are photos showing people that have Nazi symbols. One example is this guy in the “Camp Auschwitz” hoodie [1]. He also was present in a photo from the inside of Capitol, means he actively participated. There are more examples. I had such a similar conversation with coworkers one time during lunch. I said that I had just seen a Nazi on a bike next to the office. One of my coworkers tried to argue, that not every biker was a Nazi and maybe I had jumped to conclusion too soon. Which of course is true, not every biker is a Nazi, but the one I’d seen had had a swastika and SS bolts tattooed on his shoulder. And yes, there were looters during BML protests. [1] https://nypost.com/2021/01/06/neo-nazis-among-protesters-who-stormed-us-capitol/ https://nypost.com/2021/01/06/neo-nazis-among-protesters-who...