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Sometimes it feels like we're in the midst of a loneliness epidemic, created or exacerbated by technology like the internet. But the data doesn't actually line

Sometimes it feels like we're in the midst of a loneliness epidemic, created or exacerbated by technology like the internet. But the data doesn't actually line up with that belief: https://ourworldindata.org/loneliness-epidemic https://ourworldindata.org/loneliness-epidemic It looks like we are generally as lonely as we were throughout the 20th century. Perhaps that's a sign the internet hasn't yet lived up to its promise as the great unifier. The fact that the greatest and most accessible communication technology in history hasn't put a dent in loneliness shows that we still have a lot of work to do in making it serve that end.

yters 6y ago
I wonder if people just are not as good at being stimulation free and alone with their thoughts.
brundolf 6y ago
Totally speculating, but I think cultural loneliness may be rooted in individualism. Which isn't to say individualism is intrinsically bad, but one of its trade-offs is the devaluation of relationships, especially ones you haven't gone out of your way to initiate and maintain. Which is to say: the problem was never a lack of communication channels.
- AnthonyMouse 6y ago
  I think there's something to what you're saying but the terms are slightly wrong. Individualism is ordinarily set in opposition to collectivism, but it's the bastardization of both that have created the problem. On the one hand, social clubs have been evaporating. Bowling leagues, rotary clubs, ham radio clubs etc. They're fading, and this predates 2020. These things are compatible with individualism -- it's freedom of association. But in practice people aren't doing them as much anymore. On the other hand, the bureaucratization of social assistance. If you need help you don't go to people in your community who already know your face and the specifics of your plight, you fill out a form on a computer and some algorithm decides whether you get a supermarket gift card. Both of these trends are isolating but it's not because of where we put the trade off between individualism and collectivism, it's because we're doing both of them poorly.
  - watwut 6y ago
    I don't see how i could go to bowling league regularly and simultaneously keep full time job, be actual non absent parent for kids and maintain at least some relationship with extended family. Bowling social clubs assume everyone has a lot of free time, does not have small kids or offloaded all kids care on partner.
    - barry-cotter 6y ago
      Are you assuming a full time job means 60 hours a week?
      - watwut 6y ago
        No, I am assuming 40-45 hours not counting lunch and transport to/ from work.I am assuming you shop, eat dinner, take showers and sleep. I am assuming that you take kids outside, feed them half time, interact with them, take them from kindergarten, ensure homework is done and generally raise them. I am assuming that sometimes you need to be alone and just rest too. You can't spend all the time in obligations only without your moods being affected. With 60 hours a week, the above itself is limited. Even without bowling league, with that much working you don't do anything else, you are work only person basically.
        barry-cotter 6y ago
        You’re just saying you have other priorities that are higher than having a regular social engagement. That’s fine. If you don’t want to do anything other than work, keep up family ties, hang out with your children and spouse that’s fine. But other people feel they can do all of those to their satisfaction and have an ongoing social engagement.
        watwut 6y ago
        But that is what I says - social clubs as social engagement means that you require your partner to do almost all childcare. Like, you monopolized free time for own fun. Most of what you call other priorities does not disappear if you don't want to do it or prefer social. If you don't feel like doing it tonight, simply, someone else have more chores to do.
- johnchristopher 6y ago
  I am just connecting your comment about individualism and a tweet reply to a tweet that cited the fact that the TSA has recorded similar numbers of travellers on Christmas Eve compared to precovid days. It stated that it was because Americans value the economy and freedom over anything. But that freedom is used by individuals to gather with others.
- jhanschoo 6y ago
  Japan is known for being quite collectivist and lonely. Frequently heard is of people feeling that they don't fit in society.

yters 6y ago

I wonder if people just are not as good at being stimulation free and alone with their thoughts.

brundolf 6y ago

Totally speculating, but I think cultural loneliness may be rooted in individualism. Which isn't to say individualism is intrinsically bad, but one of its trade-offs is the devaluation of relationships, especially ones you haven't gone out of your way to initiate and maintain. Which is to say: the problem was never a lack of communication channels.

AnthonyMouse 6y ago
I think there's something to what you're saying but the terms are slightly wrong. Individualism is ordinarily set in opposition to collectivism, but it's the bastardization of both that have created the problem. On the one hand, social clubs have been evaporating. Bowling leagues, rotary clubs, ham radio clubs etc. They're fading, and this predates 2020. These things are compatible with individualism -- it's freedom of association. But in practice people aren't doing them as much anymore. On the other hand, the bureaucratization of social assistance. If you need help you don't go to people in your community who already know your face and the specifics of your plight, you fill out a form on a computer and some algorithm decides whether you get a supermarket gift card. Both of these trends are isolating but it's not because of where we put the trade off between individualism and collectivism, it's because we're doing both of them poorly.
- watwut 6y ago
  I don't see how i could go to bowling league regularly and simultaneously keep full time job, be actual non absent parent for kids and maintain at least some relationship with extended family. Bowling social clubs assume everyone has a lot of free time, does not have small kids or offloaded all kids care on partner.
  - barry-cotter 6y ago
    Are you assuming a full time job means 60 hours a week?
    - watwut 6y ago
      No, I am assuming 40-45 hours not counting lunch and transport to/ from work.I am assuming you shop, eat dinner, take showers and sleep. I am assuming that you take kids outside, feed them half time, interact with them, take them from kindergarten, ensure homework is done and generally raise them. I am assuming that sometimes you need to be alone and just rest too. You can't spend all the time in obligations only without your moods being affected. With 60 hours a week, the above itself is limited. Even without bowling league, with that much working you don't do anything else, you are work only person basically.
      - barry-cotter 6y ago
        You’re just saying you have other priorities that are higher than having a regular social engagement. That’s fine. If you don’t want to do anything other than work, keep up family ties, hang out with your children and spouse that’s fine. But other people feel they can do all of those to their satisfaction and have an ongoing social engagement.
        watwut 6y ago
        But that is what I says - social clubs as social engagement means that you require your partner to do almost all childcare. Like, you monopolized free time for own fun. Most of what you call other priorities does not disappear if you don't want to do it or prefer social. If you don't feel like doing it tonight, simply, someone else have more chores to do.
johnchristopher 6y ago
I am just connecting your comment about individualism and a tweet reply to a tweet that cited the fact that the TSA has recorded similar numbers of travellers on Christmas Eve compared to precovid days. It stated that it was because Americans value the economy and freedom over anything. But that freedom is used by individuals to gather with others.
jhanschoo 6y ago
Japan is known for being quite collectivist and lonely. Frequently heard is of people feeling that they don't fit in society.